Can A Player Up The Ante With An NPC?

[MyNinjaH8sU]

So here's the question:

I, as a GM, can offer a player a Fate point for a compel, and occasionally up the ante by offering them multiple in order to tempt them to accept.

Is there any precedence for the situation to be reversed? Say the players know an aspect of an NPC, and offer a Fate point to compel. Can I pay them a Fate point to buy them off, and can they offer me multiples in order to ensure the compel happens?

[WillH]

If you're using the escalation rules then they apply equally to the GM and players. The GM is not a special snowflake.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Didn't think so and wasn't trying to imply such, but it's something that occurred to me as the GM, and I wanted to ask about it before suggesting it to the players, because it's the sort of thing that they could certainly get into, but I wasn't sure if there were consequences to that with the system I hadn't thought of.

Thanks!

[babel2uk]

Actually, I don't think a player can up the ante on an NPC. It seems like it's a GM only thing. A player can initiate an escalation if the GM tries to compel one of their aspects, but it seems a little odd to allow a player to do so on an NPC. Especially given that the GM can flat out reject a player's escalation attempt.

[WillH]

There is nothing saying a player can't do.

[babel2uk]

Why would the GM accept?

"I'll compel his x aspect!"

"He's going to buy that off."

"I'm going to escalate"

"It's a compellable circumstance, but it's not that compellable!. No deal."

The box about escalation sepcifically puts it in the hands of the GM and states when a player can up the ante, and it's only on GM initiated compels. Aside from anything else the escalation rule should only be used in a defining moment for a character. It's not really the player's place to dictate that to the GM for an NPC who they don't know that well - the GM has a list of all of the PC's aspects and is in a better position to judge when their high concept is in play and when they are facing a real crunch time on that high concept.

[WillH]

If it's so important to a player that they are willing the pay two fate points to compel an NPC the GM damn well better accept. The escalation box only mentions the GM because it's mostly only something the GM would do. The mechanic is perfectly functional both ways and you don't need permission from the rules to do something. The rules just tell you how it works. In the box on escalation the GM can refuse the player initiated escalation because it's the GM's compel and the GM is in control of whether or not he wants to offer another fate point. If it was the player's compel the GM would not be able to just refuse it, because the player is in control of whether or not to offer another fate point. Lastly when it comes to judging if the high concept is in play or if it's crunch time, the GM is just another person at the table. He has one vote, with no more or less authority than the players.

[Arcteryx]

Why wouldn't the GM at least seriously think about it, if the player is willing to blow TWO FATE points on it? He's not offering a couple of Doritos out of his chip bowl - those are honest to goodness FATE points we're talking about here.

If my players were to think it was that important, I'd have to at least hear them out.

I can understand the reluctance though. It takes some getting used to when a player has a mechanic to push the story around from his side of the table.

[toturi]

I can understand the reluctance though. It takes some getting used to when a player has a mechanic to push the story around from his side of the table.

i think that is one of the main features of the game system. That the players can push the story around, instead of only the GM doing so.

The way escalation is written it assumes that whoever is compelling is bring more Fate points to the table. Players usually have a limited pool, the GM doesn't.

[luminos]

If the players are willing to blow two Fate points for it, absolutely let them escalate.  If the compel was unreasonable in the first place, the GM could have vetoed it before the Fate point bidding began.

[sinker]

Most of the arguments made here are better for arguing that escalation isn't necessary for a player. If one of my players wants to compel that bad then there has to be a reason. I would just take them aside and ask them why. If the reason is going to increase everyone's enjoyment of the game then there's no reason not to just let them compel or if it's going to sour things for the group then a flat denial is best.

[Lanir]

Uh, two fate points sounds kind of expensive but much, much, much easier to come up with than defining moments for a character. Think about it. You could start any adventure with two or more fate points easily, right out of character generation. You certainly wouldn't be expected to have a life altering event happen every adventure though. The two ideas aren't even comparable.

If somehow you really think that player has done right by the NPC and you want to allow it then sure but it'd be a special case and honestly it's not likely to add to your game much if at all. That sort of conflict only happens to the main characters in a story so if you're keeping it as a defining moment rather than just a way to let your players blow fate points, then what they're doing is handing the spotlight to the NPC. To effectively model the impact the story would have to focus a bit more on them than is normal.