Item Crafting resembles D&D Spellcasting

[Ryan_Singer]

Sinker, I almost agree with you.  It's that the original post had more of a "I'm not sure about this, how do I deal with it" feel to it. And it's lot easier to break apart something than it is to support it.It feels counter-intuitive to Dresden Files, but there is no reason it isn't completely viable.    I just wanted to provide examples that bring to light the disadvantages of such a character. Obviously, Ryan has provided the proof that the concept works, and works great.

Ryan, I can think of an easy block against potions: wind.   Can you imagine what would happen if that character threw that "grenade" and it flew back at him?

Brutal!

[Drashna]

That's a new one.   I mean no offense, but yes, I tend to be brutally honest. I *hate* lying/half-truths/miss information.  All in all, that's not really a *bad* flaw, is it?

Either way, this thread has done me good, so i'm very happy with it. And you've definitely gotten ideas on how to "handle" the character if you feel the need to. Oh, and FYI, I've linked somebody else to the thread asking about running a similar concept. Wanted to make an "Artificer". So you've ended up helping somebody else too!

[Drashna]

On that same vein I would suggest a high weapons skill and maybe the good arm stunt.

Oh. Ha! I just realized the implication there. (yes, I'm having a brainless day, it *is* my day off   I'd love to see that happen, blow up the "grenade" in the "wizard"s face.  "I hope your athletics was higher than the shifts you put into that "

[Ryan_Singer]

Here's what we ended up with:

Code: [Select]

Merrix Riordan
High Concept: Artificer
Trouble: Can't Fix Everything

Aspects:
Always Prepared
Magic Geek
Sorta a Wizard
My House, My Rules
Friends are Family


Skills:

Superb (+5):
Lore

Great (+4):
Conviction
Discipline

Good (+3):
Resources
Craftsmanship
Scholarship

Fair (+2):
Presence
Alertness
Endurance
Weapons

Average (+1):
Guns
Contacts
Stealth
Deceit
Empathy

Powers:
-3 Thaumaturgy (Speicialist: Crafting)
-1 The Sight
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard's Constitution
-3 Refinement (1 Crafting Refinement, 2 focus items refinement)

Stunts:
-1 2 Seconds into the future (Lore to defend against physical attacks)

Current Refresh: 2 (10-8)

Crafting:

Items have 9 power, 3 frequency
Speicalist: +1 frequency
Refinement: +1 Power and Frequency
Focus Item: +2 Power and +1 Frequency

Items: 6 Focus Items

-3 Chisel of Enchanting: +2 Power and +1 Frequency (Crafting)
-0.5 Force Ring: Weapon:9 Attack, 3 uses
-0.5 Ring of Protection: Block 9 or Armor:4, 3 uses
-2 4 open Potion slots, 9 shifts, 3 uses each.

Equipment:
Apartment in the city with Wards, Superb Arcane Sanctum, Great Arcane Library, Good Scholarship Library.
8 Shift Wards + 4 Shift Veil, unlocked with the password that Merrix spoke last time he entered or left, and it lasts for a few years at a time. (25 Shifts).

[Becq]

Here's what we ended up with:

It looks to me as though you should only have two potion slots (each potion slot takes one enchanted item slot or half a focus slot) or are short a Refinement (base two focus slots for Thaum, another two from Refine, but five focus slots worth of items).  Also, the rules indicate that you would have a single workspace (library or sanctum) of average quality (resources-2) unless you spend refresh on it.  Which seems pretty harsh to me.  I'm a little unclear as to whether non-Wizards are allowed access to Soulgaze and Wizard's Constitution.  I'd thought that Soulgaze in particular was a Wizard-only power, but the rules do appear to leave some wiggle room.

[Ryan_Singer]

It looks to me as though you should only have two potion slots (each potion slot takes one enchanted item slot or half a focus slot) or are short a Refinement (base two focus slots for Thaum, another two from Refine, but five focus slots worth of items).  Also, the rules indicate that you would have a single workspace (library or sanctum) of average quality (resources-2) unless you spend refresh on it.  Which seems pretty harsh to me.  I'm a little unclear as to whether non-Wizards are allowed access to Soulgaze and Wizard's Constitution.  I'd thought that Soulgaze in particular was a Wizard-only power, but the rules do appear to leave some wiggle room.

I was under the impression that:
1 Focus Item Slot
=
2 Enchanted Item Slots
=
4 Potion Slots

But now I can't find it in the rules. I think you're right. The character may end up giving up another point of refresh for another refinement to cope with this.

With Workspaces: YS322 says you can justify declarations of Resources-1 if the character has a high relevant skill. We're going with if it's your character's High Concept, you can take it at a little higher as a house rule.

Wizard Powers: I get the impression that these powers are restricted to *practitioners*, which has a broader base than wizards. Having Thaumaturgy definitely qualifies this character as a practitioner. The character is basically a wizard without the ability to do Evocations. His stats make him a decent Thaumaturgist, and his combat casting with rings and potions is White Council-worthy.

[Ryan_Singer]

Fixed. Character took another refinement and increased his crafting power by 1 and took two more potion slots.

He now only has a refresh of 2.

[sinker]

Actually you're right. One focus item slot is four potion slots.

Really those powers (wizard's constitution, soulgaze) are not specifically limited to wizards in the rules for good reason. There are exceptions. All you need for any power is that it makes sense under your high concept. I had a taoist true immortal that had wizard's constitution because that makes sense, not cause he was a wizard.

[babel2uk]

Actually you're right. One focus item slot is four potion slots.

Can you point me at the reference for that - I looked through and could only see that 1 focus item slot = 2 enchanted item slots. I couldn't find anything about potions getting more, though I too remember seeing that somewhere.

[Drashna]

@sinker, YS280, second paragraph of potions.  One enchanted slot = 1 potion. But frequency could allow you to have multi-use potions.

Either way, I agree with the rest of what you've said. The "artificer" build would still *definitely* be a Wizard of the White Council. At worst, chauck up any differences to regional. Say the wizard comes from a line of mages that believe their power comes through foci, and only foci.  

And agreed about the powers. As long as they make sense for the character, there should be no reason they can't have the power.

[babel2uk]

The "artificer" build would still *definitely* be a Wizard of the White Council.

I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing to do with power level of effects, bearing in mind that there's nothing that the Artificer can do that a full wizard can't with a degree more situational flexibility. I just think that proper wizards - ones with Evocation as well as Thaumaturgy, would likely regard the Artificer as a poor cousin - "Yes he's powerful in his own limited range, but without Evocation he's not a true Wizard". He might be a borderline case that some would support inclusion of, but I don't think the White Council as a whole would actually recognise him as a full Wizard - and if they did I'm fairly sure that he'd be snubbed by quite a few of its members.

[Belial666]

Minor Nitpick:

Your item frequency should be 4, not 3. An item starts with one use. +1 specialization, +1 refinement, +1 focus. That makes four.

[sinker]

@sinker, YS280, second paragraph of potions.  One enchanted slot = 1 potion. But frequency could allow you to have multi-use potions.

Wow, you're right. They must have changed that since the playtest, and here I am using the old rules.

[Ryan_Singer]

I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing to do with power level of effects, bearing in mind that there's nothing that the Artificer can do that a full wizard can't with a degree more situational flexibility. I just think that proper wizards - ones with Evocation as well as Thaumaturgy, would likely regard the Artificer as a poor cousin - "Yes he's powerful in his own limited range, but without Evocation he's not a true Wizard". He might be a borderline case that some would support inclusion of, but I don't think the White Council as a whole would actually recognise him as a full Wizard - and if they did I'm fairly sure that he'd be snubbed by quite a few of its members.

He has an aspect referencing this: "I'm sorta a Wizard". I'm going he is a member in good standing of the White Council, but it was a close one, and there are wizards who look down on him because of his lack of evocation.

His ability to do any 9-shift thaumaturgy effect at the speed of evocation using potions is *much* more flexible than most wizards can hope to pull off.

[Becq]

I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing to do with power level of effects, bearing in mind that there's nothing that the Artificer can do that a full wizard can't with a degree more situational flexibility. I just think that proper wizards - ones with Evocation as well as Thaumaturgy, would likely regard the Artificer as a poor cousin - "Yes he's powerful in his own limited range, but without Evocation he's not a true Wizard". He might be a borderline case that some would support inclusion of, but I don't think the White Council as a whole would actually recognise him as a full Wizard - and if they did I'm fairly sure that he'd be snubbed by quite a few of its members.

This.  If you don't have Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and The Sight, then you're just a hedge mage.  Possibly a powerful one, but not a true Wizard.

Oh, and you need Soulgaze to be considered a wizard.  Per WoJ:

You got to have some serious magical chops before a soulgaze is an issue--and yes, it's one of the markers that the Council uses to see if you make the cut, though it's far from the only one.  There are folks running around who can do it who aren't on the Council, but not many of them.