The Nevernever in Other Parts of the World

[chrislackey]

The Nevernever is very euro-(if not Anglo)centric as it's described in the books. I was reading up on middle eastern mythology and in some of the reading I found that the djinn have a very similar kind of thing to the fairy courts. In some myths they seem to have another world that they live in that is close to ours and they organize themselves in hierarchal structure, but more tribe based.

Anyone read anything about this? Or know of any good books on the subject?

[deathwombat]

I'd be interested in those recommendations too.

[chrislackey]

This is from Wikipedia...

Genie (Arabic: جني jinnī; variant spelling djinni) is a supernatural creature in Arab folklore and Islamic teachings which occupies a parallel world to that of mankind, and together with humans and angels makes up the three sentient creations of Allah. According to the Qur’ān, there are two creations that have free will: humans and jinn. Religious sources say little about them; however, the Qur’an mentions that Jinn are made of smokeless flame or "the fire of a scorching wind". They have the ability to change their shape. Like human beings, the jinn can also be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent.

The Jinn are mentioned frequently in the Qur’an, and there is a surah entitled Sūrat al-Jinn in the Quran. Islamic scholars have ruled that it is apostasy to disbelieve in one of Allah's creations. Some research by the American Jewish Committee has shown that the belief in jinn has fallen compared to the belief in angels in other Abrahamic traditions.

The social organization of the jinn community resembles that of humans; e.g., they have kings, courts of law, weddings, and mourning rituals. A few traditions (hadith), divide jinn into three classes: those who have wings and fly in the air, those who resemble snakes and dogs, and those who travel about ceaselessly. Other reports claim that ‘Abd Allāh ibn Mas‘ūd (d. 652), who was accompanying Muhammad when the jinn came to hear his recitation of the Qur’an, described them as creatures of different forms; some resembling vultures and snakes, others tall men in white garb. They may even appear as dragons, onagers, or a number of other animals. In addition to their animal forms, the jinn occasionally assume human form to mislead and destroy their human victims. Certain hadiths have also claimed that the jinn may subsist on bones, which will grow flesh again as soon as they touch them, and that their animals may live on dung, which will revert to grain or grass for the use of the jinn flocks.

Sounds very feyish...

[Richard_Chilton]

Genies are mentioned briefly in Proven Guilty - one of the villains is the scion of one of them.

Richard

[Drashna]

Unfortunately, "barely mentioned" was about it. 

Though considering Jim's "the real world", the spirit world (aka the Never-never), and "outside", ....

Though considering that location (aka, most of the US) is very euro/anglo-centric, and that the nevernever is closing linked to the real world, it would make sense.  Not all the locations in the never never are euro/anglo, but yeah, most are.   And It's stated a few times that about every "mythical realm" resides in the never-never. So a more middle eastern themed section of the never-never is not only possible, it's highly likely.

[babel2uk]

I can heartily recommend Mark Chadbourn's Kingdom of the Serpent trilogy for this kind of thing - Jack of Ravens, The Burning Man, Destroyer of Worlds. The main setting for the series (and indeed the two trilogies that precede it) is modern world with the old gods, magic and faerie creatures returning. The Faerie are organised into 20 or so courts with different methods and ideologies. The second and third books in the series take the main characters away from England and America, to Mediterranean Europe, Egypt and China, meeting with the local version of the Faerie in each place (they're trying to recruit them for a War).

The first two trilogies (The Age of Misrule and The Dark Ages) are set in Britain and are mostly concerned with celtic mythology, and I'd recommend anyone who wants ideas for how to bring Celtic mythology into a modern day setting should read them.

I know the first two trilogies were released in the US over the last couple of years. I think that the Kingdom of the Serpent may have just been released, or is due for release shortly. They've been out in the UK for a while.

[Shecky]

Unfortunately, "barely mentioned" was about it. 

How is that "unfortunately"? It's based on a certain set of mythoi (a broad range thereof, to be honest); there's no responsibility to try to include the whole world. Otherwise, literature set in the non-Euro-origin parts of the world would need to include Euro-derived mythoi. A double standard is not a good thing.

Though considering that location (aka, most of the US) is very euro/anglo-centric

FYI, the phrase "_____-centric" has a pretty strongly negative connotation these days.

[Bruce Coulson]

The world (both mundane and Nevernever) is a huge place.  We're reading a set of novels, not a Fodor's Guide.

Australia would be an interesting setting.  One wonders how the Courts fare in dealing with the Dreamtime and its inhabitants.  I can see both Summer and Winter clinging to the coastlines, nervously looking over their shoulders when the Bunyips are hunting.

[toturi]

I think it may be interesting to see how the Nevernever in the rest of the world is depicted in DF. For example, perhaps while the major Fae powers in the western world are the Seelie and Unseelie courts (Summer and Winter), the major Fae powers in the far east are Spring (planting) and Autumn (harvesting).

With the rise of China and India in the real world, the mythos of their people could well spread and the geography of the near-mortal Nevernever may change.

[i_enigma_1]

Hello... A pretty new poster on this forum here... I love that this thread exists... However, I never got the impression of Never-never being primarily Fae-land. Fae being the predominant mythology in Euro-centric regions of the world, in those geographic locations the 'nearest' region of never-never would be the Fae-lands, however in other regions it would be something else... Eg. Dreaming in Australia, The Jade Emperor's Heaven/ Tian or thereabouts in China, the lands of the 'Devas & Asuras' in India and so on... Since, Harry is operating in the Euro-centric part of the world, its quite okay for him to be primarily concerned with that...

However, something that does bug me is this-
The White Council is supposed to be sole representative organisation of ALL wizards in the world... We have non-whites like Ancient Mai, Listens-to-the-Wind, Rashid as 'proof'... And THEN, we have Gregori Christos, politically important westerner, because of support from 'Non-Western' Nations? What? The world population ratio is currently something like 1 white: 5 non-white people... Magic is stated to be highly hereditary and almost Eastern cultures, be they Indian, Chinese or Persian place an extremely high importance on family and remaining connected to the family. So there would be less chances of magically talented youngsters being overlooked for training... As such, by any calculation, 'Western' wizards should be the minority in any global representative organisation...

So unless, there is a separate 'Non-Western' Council of wizards existing in isolation from the White Council, this really doesn't make sense...

So thoughts, people?

[blackheart]

The world (both mundane and Nevernever) is a huge place.  We're reading a set of novels, not a Fodor's Guide.

Australia would be an interesting setting.  One wonders how the Courts fare in dealing with the Dreamtime and its inhabitants.  I can see both Summer and Winter clinging to the coastlines, nervously looking over their shoulders when the Bunyips are hunting.

I imagine that the Dreamtime would be powerful enough by it's own conotation that it could be considered it's own pocket realm in the Nevernever.
A plethora of ideas spring to mind, including Aboriganal shamans telling the know-it-all White Council to piss off, this is Our World.

[Arcteryx]

I have the Jade Emperor and the celestial bureaucracy as part of the fabric of the Nevernever; and taking a page out of Scion (which is awesome for mining ideas BTW), most major Chinese communities and Chinatowns connect to it in some way.