Torture?

[Tbora]

If an npc is torturing a pc should it inflict physical or social stress, or both?

[TheMouse]

Physical, mental, or some combination of the two.

[finnmckool]

Yep. Both. And ooo that opens up some fun doors of consequences...

[Lanir]

Glance at the examples of what the "taken out" looks like for the various stress tracks you're considering. Then see which applies to what your NPC is doing most closely. Technically it could be any of the three.

Social is more of a James Bond style torture. "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die." or maybe a generic "After I'm done with you I'm going to start on the girl..."

Physical is pretty obvious. Waterboarding, whipping, attacking various non-vital body parts, etc, are all physical. The thing to keep in mind here is that the physical stress is incidental. Your bad guy doesn't have to take the character out physically. He's already contained somehow. In fact, taking the character out physically is an inconvenience to the NPC because then the torture has to pause while your PC is brought around again.

Mental is the usual goal here. Your NPC wants the character to break, to be unable to consider resisting what he wants. The thing is, the NPC can't directly attack your PCs mind so he has to go the indirect route. But ultimately what he's going for is a mental consequence that he can tag to pressure your PC into giving up whatever it is the NPC wants.


Just FYI, this is all opinion. I have no actual knowledge of torture in the real world, this is just how it seems to be used in stories. Also, not all NPCs who are willing to torture someone know how to go about it efficiently. Some will just beat the tar out of the good guys, knock them out, then be pissed that they haven't gotten what they wanted yet. And even the best make mistakes. So consider what your NPC knows about the subject, what he wants, and (most importantly) what would do your story the most good as you make this happen. PCs that are powerless for any length of time can quickly lead to players that aren't having fun. Keep a close eye on the mood of your group.

[Baron Hazard]

imo, someone that knows what they are doing in torture, wouldn't deal much physical stress. instead all of the Physical 'damage' would be maneuvers to be tagged leading up to the major mental attack.

an amateur is the one who'd be like "tell me!" "no" punch/cut/stab that deals 5 stress. "Tell me!" "go to hell" punch/cut/stab until unconscious.

[finnmckool]

But that DOES have a mental effect. And it may be that the mental effect is far more damaging than the physical. Cutting off pieces of skin, say, wouldn't necessarily be damaging, but it'd hurt. Certain compounds don't damage you, but they hurt like all giddy-up. Like the venom of those Australian jelly fish.

[Baron Hazard]

which is how they'd be maneuvers applied and not physical stress. so that they could be tagged for the +2 to the mental attack.

[finnmckool]

Exactly. Or they'd be mental stress that would equal a consequence of a lowered conviction making you more susceptible to answering questions. You get to decide how to fulfill aspects after all, maybe to you just blurt out wrong answers, running the risk of being caught lying therefore in the position of more punishment but...there you are.

[WillH]

Dresden, nor any game for that matter, does not need torture rules. If you think you need torture rules what you really need is to stop playing with a bunch of sick bastards.

[Wordmaker]

You're assuming it's the PCs who want to use torture, rather than the question being asked because the PCs are the ones to be tortured.

And people have certainly been tortured in The Dresden Files. And so there are grounds for working out how that might work, so long as its something everyone in the group is comfortable with.

If the torturer is particularly skilled, I'd allow it to be a Mental Conflict. Otherwise, given that torture isn't about trying to physically defeat the victim, I'd go for Social, but allow that the description of how Stress is inflicted and what the Consequences are could have a physical element, like "Beaten All Night Long."

[Wyrdrune]

you could use the consequential contest rules - one roll between both participants and the difference is transfered as consequence on the victim. on or two rolls per torture session.

[eberg]

Physical is pretty obvious. Waterboarding, whipping, attacking various non-vital body parts, etc, are all physical. The thing to keep in mind here is that the physical stress is incidental. Your bad guy doesn't have to take the character out physically. He's already contained somehow. In fact, taking the character out physically is an inconvenience to the NPC because then the torture has to pause while your PC is brought around again.

Waterboarding is definitely mental, not physical. The point is that it is all about primal fear responses and doesn't actually harm the person physically. It is tricking the body and mind into thinking that it is drowning, that it is dying.

[babel2uk]

Physical torture is primarily a tool to disorient and break the subject's will to resist - it's mostly about wearing them down until they're pliable enough to do or say what the torturer wishes. The best way to model it for this system would probably be to allow the torturer to tag or invoke any physical consequences when engaging in a mental conflict with the subject.

[TheMouse]

There are two clear ways to model physical torture as a component of a mental conflict:

1. Maneuvers -- You use some physical skill to make maneuvers to put temporary Aspects on the target. This would mostly be the painful or disturbing stuff that doesn't lead to long term physical debilitation. Waterboarding comes to mind as a  way to put an Aspect such as "I can't breath!" onto someone.

2. Consequences -- This is where you beat the crap out of someone and inflict lasting damage. Many of the torture techniques of the Inquisition come to mind; being racked, for example, definitely leaves actual wounds. Then you use your tag of the Consequence to assist when you switch to the mental conflict.

Mechanically, the latter is probably more effective, if a little more time consuming. You're using up a finite number of Consequences split between physical and mental. Your target is also less likely to be as good at resisting both forms of Stress than a single type. You do need to spend more time inflicting Stress than with just maneuvers, but you're likely to get into Consequence territory faster, which leads more quickly to concessions or being taken out.

[Kaldra]

The DnD Book Of Vile Darkness boils torture down to about the level most groups feel comfortable with: each method/device/substance used provides a bonus to the interrogator who engages in a contest of skills. in the dresdenverse conviction and intimidation would seem to be about right.