Beta Readers for Novel-length work

[Kali]

What machine are you working on? I've handled novels twice that long in Word and not had any problems.

This is a good thing to do for getting feedback from betas, definitely; but don;t show them before, however tempting.

A few hundred pages of manuscript are non-trivial either to post or to afford the ink cartridge for your printer, I'd have thought.

Actually, the biggest temptation I'm fighting now is to query anyway.  I like my synopsis and my query letter, and the first five pages are, I feel, polished enough to send.  I know I want comments on some parts, though, and I have this terrible feeling that if I query now, the results will be nightmarish.  I'll get the "We like it, send  us the whole thing" and be completely elated only to have my heart crushed when they decline the manuscript because it wasn't polished enough. *shudder* Nightmarish, I say.

The machine's a laptop meant for gaming, with 4 gigs of RAM and a Intel Core 2 Duo processor.  Word's flakiness isn't always evident, but it does things like... Like if I just open the document and close it again without typing anything, Word asks me if I want to save my changes.  I got paranoid.  I have, in fact, combined it into one document and the Earth is still rotating so it wasn't as dangerous as I'd feared, but I did back it up in three different ways.  Paranoia.

[Kali]

And, in an abrupt change of direction, I've decided to go a different direction with this.  Thank you, thank you VERY much, to those who offered to give up their time to help me make this into something I could sell.  The people here on the Butcher board are some of the nicest anywhere, and I've traveled my share of the internet. 

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Actually, the biggest temptation I'm fighting now is to query anyway.  I like my synopsis and my query letter, and the first five pages are, I feel, polished enough to send.  I know I want comments on some parts, though, and I have this terrible feeling that if I query now, the results will be nightmarish.  I'll get the "We like it, send  us the whole thing" and be completely elated only to have my heart crushed when they decline the manuscript because it wasn't polished enough. *shudder* Nightmarish, I say.

Definitely worth avoiding that if only for your blood pressure's sake.

I have, in fact, combined it into one document and the Earth is still rotating so it wasn't as dangerous as I'd feared, but I did back it up in three different ways.  Paranoia.

Three backups on two different sites is a minimum degree of safe backup IMO; I tend to have one copy on my writing laptop, one on my household's DVD-watching desktop, and one at a dedicated gmail account that exists for offsite backup purposes.

[Enjorous]

And, in an abrupt change of direction, I've decided to go a different direction with this.  Thank you, thank you VERY much, to those who offered to give up their time to help me make this into something I could sell.  The people here on the Butcher board are some of the nicest anywhere, and I've traveled my share of the internet. 

Howe3ver you decide to do it keep us posted on how its working for you. Because we're all pulling for you.

[Figging Mint]

If that different direction  still includes "getting more readers" as a waypoint,  let me know.

[jeno]

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck~!

[prophet224]

Aye, good luck. At the same time, you can often find writer's groups and critique groups in your local area.

My sig has the link to my local group's online presence. Take a look at how we do it if you like.

[meg_evonne]

Hi Kali! I would encourage you to wait on the query until you are sure that your manuscript is as perfect as you can manage.   Have you chosen to work with an editor? If so, be cautious.  The quality is varied, as well as the price.  I'd suggest a few pages to test the waters first.  The best will actually 'vet' your work first before accepting.

I've had mixed reviews from many sources on local crit groups.  Make sure you are getting equal crit back for crit provided, before you dig in too deeply and your time gets waylaid.  Also the local groups tend to have a wide range of skill and craft level.  Again, be cautious.  Ideally seek out a group that is above your skill level.

Either way, I can tell you are happy with whatever decision you've decided on. 

One more thing?  Go the intermediate step on the query if you like.  Query a few agents that aren't anywhere near the top of our preferred list.  If you get an offer, then you sweat--or maybe celebrate?  Cross that bridge when it happens.

Meg

 

[Kali]

I'm sending out one query first, to my first-choice agent.  I want this agent, so I'm giving them a first shot at it.  Not that I think there'll be a bidding war or anything, and I should be so lucky as to have two or more agents interested, but I figured giving them the first look was polite.

I'm treating it like applying to college.  You have your dream schools, then the ones you like, then the backup schools. You never let on to anyone but the dream schools where they are in your list, of course, but you have a list anyway!  I have a list.  My list does not include "everyone who ever agented an urban fantasy book ever".  I feel badly for people who just mass mail every agent in the book.  There are some who have handled books very like mine, and that's who I'm targeting. If they all pass, they all pass. I'll drop this world and its characters (except for fun), and will move on to another idea that's in my head.

[prophet224]

On queries:
Wow, I have to say I would never send a query out first to a 'low on my list' agent. While you are not obligated to go with them, if they do say 'ok', then you have set up a difficult situation. Do you now say 'nevermind' and not only turn your back on a professional in the field (it is a close-knit community), but perhaps (you don't know yet) the only person who wants the book? Or do you go with them and never get a chance to try your first choice?

Otherwise, yes wait on the query. You need to be ready, and I seem to recall you mentioning that the first five pages were polished. If your query comes back positive, they may ask for the whole thing or they may ask only for the first 2-5 chapters, but they are unlikely to only ask for a few pages.

On critique groups:
Yeah, critique groups are tough. There are many more bad writers out there than not. That said, if you take a look at the writing the other folks in the group are doing, you can get a good idea of whether it is worth investing your time. I know I was on writerscafe.org for a bit, and just decided that I wasn't getting many useful critiques. I was also reading so much really bad work it was ridiculous, and I felt like to do myself justice I had to give a good critique - but bad writing is a lot of work to do that with. I just gave it up.

As mentioned, groups can be of wide ranges - not just in skill and craft but also in life experience, age, etc. But you don't know anything at all about your local groups until you try. (Or until you set one up yourself. From what I've heard, Barnes & Noble is very receptive to hosting and advertising local writer's groups.)

[Kali]

The reason I mentioned the first five was because this agent wants queries that contain the query letter and blurb, the synopsis, and the first five pages.  There's another agent in my list who wants the letter, the synopsis, and the first ten, so that's what I'll be sending to them when it's time.  And I'll probably rewrite the query letter a little, targeted to their particular likes and dislikes.

Some agents, for example, want the basic info first.  "The Book is an urban fantasy novel complete at 80,000 words..."  All that stuff.  Then the blurb.  Some agents want to dive right into the blurb and they'll get to the other stuff later.  So that, if nothing else, requires personalization and knowing your audience.

[۞†Grey Warden†۞]

Good luck

[meg_evonne]

I'm sending out one query first, to my first-choice agent.  I want this agent, so I'm giving them a first shot at it. 

Make sure the agent knows that you are giving them exclusive first look.  I think they would appreciate your interest in them specifically.  However, initially this was what I thought as well, however those first-choice agents are often highly sought after with many, many queries in their queue each morning.  If you query is not exclusive, you have this option.  This seems really backward and frankly rude, BUT I was told by someone that I trust a great deal who said.  "Get the request for pages."  Once you have it, send out your query to your favs.  Then if you get THE CALL, then send notes to your favs.  "I've forwarded query to you, and I have been offered representation.  I'm hoping that you will pull my work out and let me know what you think before I reply?"  Or something similar. 

You don't say 'yes' right away when the call comes, or you shouldn't. (How the heck would I know, but I'm a business woman and it makes sense to take these things slowly.)  On the other hand, the person offered and wants to represent your work.  That COUNTS for a lot! It seemed--well, crass, but you can see the logic here.  I remember also seeing an agent's literary blog that said, if you have been offered, please tell us immediately.


On the initial query.  Recommendations say to send a few, wait for results.  If you get all passes, then modify the query and hit more agents, etc until successful.  That way you hit your fav agents with something that is top notch, not just good.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Hi Kali! I would encourage you to wait on the query until you are sure that your manuscript is as perfect as you can manage.  

This does need to be balanced against the risk of never sending out anything at all, though.  I mean, I can usually see how to improve things I wrote a few years ago, which can make it hard to send out something I know is less than perfect in the hope that in five years' time I'll see how to fix it.