I dont hav an issue i have a subscription

[A.J.O.D.]

so I've got a large problem on of my players want to play an Emissary of power being powered by outsiders. The idea is that he was an architect helping build a building that was going to be a gate way to summon some outsiders and something went wrong and there stuck in his body. So my first prob is this alowed and my second problem is the group has to wizards in it and one of them is a warden so what happens when a walking talking violataion of law seven is found in the group.

[babel2uk]

Oh, in theory you can be an emmisary of power for anything. In theory, because he's an emmisary of power rather than a user of mortal magic, the White Council don't have any authority over him. That said, I really can't see the council being happy about any of their number hanging around with the guy - or the guy running around loose on his own. There are reasons why the 7th Law exists.

My guess is that either the White Council will order him killed, or they'll order him contained and brought in, or they'll order their people to cut off all ties to him. My own opinion is that you should talk to the player and point out that for a start he's potentially forcing two other players to generate new characters once his secret's found out - that's if the group doesn't immediately turn round and kill his character.

Outsiders really aren't player character material - even if they're contained in a mortal body they're going to force their emmisary to do some really really nasty things - after all they want out, and if they have to make their emmisary slaughter a school full of children and wear their skins like a suit to do so, they're not going to hesitate to do so.

[Haru]

I've had a similar idea only with a demon, but the concept might help you as well.

The character and a few friends had - by accident - summoned a demon. The character is a roleplaying geek, so he "knew" a bit about demons. He was able to bind the demon to himself, before it was able to do any harm. From that moment on, the demon and the character have become one, fighting over control of the body. The demon's agenda is destruction, and the longer he is not able to destroy or kill, the angrier and stronger he becomes. The character on the other hand is trying to keep the demon at bay, so he is directing the destructive forces of the demon in a better direction. The demon does not care what it destroys, as long as there is destruction.
I treat this as an Emissary of Power / White Court Hunger combination. Every scene that does not satisfy the demons agenda strengthens it, making it more likely to take over.
On the other hand, just killing the character would not help, because it would be a blood sacrifice to the demon, making it even stronger and helping it cross into our world entirely.

Maybe you can apply something similar to your character. The warden would not dare kill the character, because it would open the doorway for the outsider (and maybe even some of its friends) but he would constantly have to watch over him, and help him not lose control. Of course on the long run, the warden might try to get rid of the outsider for good, and if he does, he would change the characters high concept, which might not be wanted.

[A.J.O.D.]

me and the other st have already told him this. but he still wants to try it

[A.J.O.D.]

thats not a bad idea. i might just use it.

[babel2uk]

The key thing here is your own feelings as GM. Do you want this character in your group? You sound like you don't - which is fair, I wouldn't want it in my group.

One option is of course to simply say "No, pick a different character concept. It's just not going to fit into the game." I'd not feel guilty doing that - from the sounds of it the guy is perfectly happy to screw up two other players characters without batting an eye-lid.

Or you can ask the other players how they feel about it. Character creation, like City Creation is supposed to be a group thing. If the majority of the group aren't happy with the idea you can nip it in the bud right there. If they are - even after you've pointed out the potential problems for the two Wizards, then they've pretty much made their own bed. It just depends if you're going to be happy running for that character.

[Lanir]

Kind of going with babel2uk on this one. Basically what he's asking is for your whole group to deal with something that could get really, really hairy. If I were in your shoes I'd want that player to talk to me and the other players and convince us of a few things.

- Explain how and why this character concept isn't going to blow up and cause all kinds of collateral damage to the group.
- Explain what you and the other players get out of this idea. It's got too much potential to cause everyone issues to get by with just a "I think it would be cool for me to play". There are a lot of cool ideas that don't have this kind of potential for destroying your game.
- How does the player envision this group dynamic working out? And what problems do the other players see with it?
- How would the player see this character concept growing as time goes on? Is there an end goal? Any sort of premade plan for how to get there? I just mention this because it gives you ideas about how the points above will change during play.

After you discuss these points with your group, if your guy hasn't resolved all the red flags you see over these points, say no. That's why this sort of concept wouldn't fly in a lot of games. If somehow you all think it can be made to work and be fun then by all means do whatever you like. But you don't have clear, usable answers to all of these points your group is going to implode and that might not be fun for some or all of you.

[luminos]

Outsiders are anti-reality.  Is an anti-reality PC something that your campaign is geared towards?  Or is it completely out of place? 

[deathwombat]

No no no and hell no.

[Todjaeger]

The idea of a character acting as an Emissary of Power for an Outsider is an interesting one, for a story.  It would be completely out of place in a DRRPG game in my opinion.  Keep in mind the 7th Law, "Never Power and Knowledge from Beyond the Outer Gates," means that the White Council is going to deal with ANY mortal using Outsider-sponsored magic with extreme prejudice.  Harry has even mentioned that too much knowledge of Outsiders, the Old Ones and the Outer Gates could be considered a 7th Law violation.

A (mortal) character with Sponsored Magic from an Outsider is an automatic violation, which would lead the nice, friendly neighborhood warden into paying a visit to give the character a haircut.  At the neck.

In short, the concept is going to do either one of two things.  1.  The Warden and/or other members of the White Council and their allies are going to be ordered to kill the character using Outsider magic, or 2.  The entire group is going to be treated as warlocks or minions of warlocks, and dealt with accordingly by the White Council and allies.

While not very much is known about what Outsiders want, they seem to be hostile to life and reality as it is known to everyone in the world and Nevernever.  In short, they are thought to want to unmake the universe.  With that in mind, virtually every member of the supernatural community, except for

(click to show/hide)

the Circle/Black Council/Black Hats and maybe the White King

are going to want to stop/kill the group.  Either because they want to keep the Outer Gates closed, or because they want to harness the power of the Outsider(s) for themselves.

Now if the campaign is planned on being very short, and the players understand beforehand that their characters are going to get killed, the concept might be workable for a period of time.  For any sort of extended campaign, the concept is just too unworkable within the DFRPG universe.

[Becq]

It is technically true that Emissaries don't fall under the 'jurisdiction' of the White Council.  I think it's equally true that any Emissary of an Outsider power would immediately be considered one of the most extreme threats the White Council has on it's table.  Keep in mind that the Red Court is

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(or was)

not under White Council jurisdiction, either...

As an aside, a realistic attempt to bring Outsiders into reality should be considered hostile to many of the other factions.  I doubt even the Denarians would appreciate such competition...

So I suppose a player who wanted his character to be Enemy #1 to everyone, including the other players, then this would be a great plan.  Briefly.

[Todjaeger]

It is technically true that Emissaries don't fall under the 'jurisdiction' of the White Council.

Actually, we don't really know that or not, since we don't have a copy of the Unseelie Accords or any other sort of treaty between the different supernatural factions.  I think it is likely safe to assume that no others are signatories of the Unseelie Accords, given how hostile they seem to be towards reality.  If that is the case, then any Emissary of an Outsider would likely just be treated as a 'regular' member of whichever group they would otherwise be considered a part of.  In this case, they would likely be treated just like any other human who has some degree of talent or ability.  Which means falling under the jurisdiction of the White Council. 

The White Council's 'area of interest' seems to be mortals/humans with talent of some degree or another.  Those humans with significant amounts of talent (i.e. Wizards) are eligible for membership in the White Council, with the responsibilities and priveleges associated with membership.  For those practioners without sufficient talent (Minor Talents, Focused Practioners, etc) unless the person is a member of another group which is an Unseelie Accords signatory (Venatori Umbrorum and possibly others) then the practioner needs to abide by the Laws of Magic as dictated by the White Council, or risk being found, tried and given a 'haircut'.

As a practical matter, would an Outsider even bother having an Emissary?  They could certain want to allow people within reality access to some of the powers of an Outside since that could be used to breach the Outer Gates and otherwise cause chaos, havoc, etc.  However, the possition of Emissary implies that there would be some form of representation provided by the Emissary for the Outsider.  Given that most, if not all other factions within reality are not interested in having to fend off attacks by Outsiders intent on destroying reality, could an Emissary really 'represent' the interests of an Outsider.  And would those interests be for anything other than causing as much mayhem as possible, as quickly as possible.

[deathwombat]

The Gatekeeper would have stomped all over the attempt to build a Portal to summon outsiders too.
And their "emisary" Emmissary? Dang it's too early to think straight.

[Wordmaker]

The most important aspect of the Outsiders, to me, is that they are completely unknowable. Their intentions and motivations should be so beyond mortal comprehension that, at best, a mortal able to observe them would be like a moth attracted to the lightbulb in a bedroom. It would wait for the light to go on when the human enters, thinking it had some great significance, when really the human just wanted to get a clean pair of socks.

A PC being an emissary of a force so beyond our understanding would have to be a major player in that being's plans, whatever they may be. There is no way the White Council, the Denarians, the Black Court, and the Fae would not want such a person dead or permanently incapacitated.

Not to mention that, as previously said, character and city creation are group activities. The rest of the group should, unless you're playing a different style of game, at least have OOC knowledge of this, meaning this player should take the other players' wishes into consideration. Will the game be fun if the rest of the group are forced to turn on one of their own? Will it be fun if they decide to turn against their superiors and side with the Outsiders? Those questions need to be answered before anything else is done.

[Becq]

As an aside, is it possible that the player in question thinks he wants connections to Outsiders, but is really looking for more of a Nevernever-type being?  Keep in mind that in the Dresdenverse, the various Greek/Roman/Norse/etc gods and demigods, Christian demons and angels, and other such beings are considered beings of the Nevernever rather than truly 'beyond the gates'.  Perhaps he'd be happy re-writing his sponsor as a power being banished to the outer reaches of the Nevernever?