Author Topic: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster  (Read 3042 times)

Offline vultur

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Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« on: September 15, 2010, 06:40:21 AM »
OK, building my first Changeling; if I have Unseelie Magic (and no other spellcasting powers) I can get focus items as per Channeling and Ritual? Is that right? It doesn't seem to say so outright, but it does say that Sponsored Magic acts like Channeling + Ritual unless otherwise noted. (Plus, I have a vague memory of reading on the forums that you can buy Refinement for extra item slots -- but not for the other possibilities. Is that right?)

Offline Morgan

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 07:02:47 AM »
Yes since Unseelie Sponsored Magic gives you Channeling and Ritual it grants you focus items just as if you had bought Channeling and Ritual separately.

Offline Becq

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 10:29:28 PM »
From the Sponsored Magic power description (YS183): "If you’re paying full price, you get four focus item slots with this ability. If you have either Evocation or Thaumaturgy, thus reducing the cost of Sponsored Magic, you only get two additional focus item slots. If you have both, reducing the cost more, you don’t get any additional focus item slots."

As to Refinement, access to this power is limited by your Template.  Wizards can buy it many times, Sorcerors can but it once per skill (Evocation/Thaumaturgy).  No other Template explicitly allows it, though Emissary and Changeling have fairly soft limits on powers, and there's always the option of creating a custom Template.  The reason for this seems to be that Wizards are assumed to have access to some degree of mentoring, whereas most others don't.  That said, if you had the right justification -- such as your Sorceror was being actively mentored by a powerful Wizard (or maybe even an Outsider) -- then your GM could certainly judge it reasonable to buy some Refinement.

Offline HappyDaze

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 10:52:40 PM »
That would seem to imply that a Summer Knight/Winter Knight could probably get the mentoring necessary to take Refinement in Seelie Magic/Unseelie Magic.

Offline Becq

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2010, 01:57:21 AM »
That would seem to imply that a Summer Knight/Winter Knight could probably get the mentoring necessary to take Refinement in Seelie Magic/Unseelie Magic.
Oops, forgot them.  They are another of the more 'open' Templates in that it allows you to mix in other Templates, including Wizard.  Now, a starting character -- even Submerged -- couldn't fill out both Templates (Wizard is -7 Refresh and Knight is -5, dropping to -3 due to the discount on Sponsored Magic, thus totalling -10) let alone have room for Refinement, but I could see an 'Apprentice Wizard, Knight of <Court>' with incomplete Wizard powers and Knight powers who eventually completes the Templates...

Offline HappyDaze

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2010, 07:46:48 AM »
Are you suggesting that Refinement is limited to mortal magicians (wizards, sorcerers, etc.) and that it doesn't fit with those that only use straight sponsored magic?

Would you allow a Changeling of Sidhe descent to take Seelie/Unseelie Magic?  If yes, would you allow them to take Refinement?

Offline WillH

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2010, 01:09:54 PM »
As to Refinement, access to this power is limited by your Template.  Wizards can buy it many times, Sorcerors can but it once per skill (Evocation/Thaumaturgy).

Can you give a page number reference for that?

Offline ralexs1991

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2010, 01:30:10 PM »
i have a character in my game who is a were-polar bear and an emissary of power for maeve and i gave him the IoP Maeve's locket
Oh, hi, Mr. Warden!  How are you this fine day?  My, what a shiny sword you have there...

Offline Becq

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Re: Focus items for Unseelie spellcaster
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 10:51:57 PM »
Can you give a page number reference for that?
YS81: "Sorcerers may take Refinement [–1] once per spell-ability (once for Thaumaturgy, once for Evocation), but may not take it multiple times per ability—there’s only so far they can develop without being full-on wizards.
YS86: "Wizards may (and in fact, should at least once) take the Refinement ability (page 182) as many times as they can afford—even multiple times for one particular mode of spellcasting (Thaumaturgy or Evocation)."
YS180&181: "Casters whose template allows for it should consider the Refinement ability (page 182)."

Oddly, under the entries for Channeling and Ritual (YS181&182) it does allow you to "gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose".  Since it would be odd for a Focused Practitioner to have easier access to item slots than a Sorceror, it would seem reasonable to apply that same benefit to Evocation and Thaumaturgy.  In any case, it seems Vultur remembered correctly after all.