redone Denarians

[vultur]

I'd have had Ursiel's pinnacle combat skills at Superb instead of Fantastic, just one short of Shiro's Fantastic Weapons.

Possible, but he seems to be a pretty crazy powerhouse ... still Weapon: 8 claws are probably enough.

EDIT: Ursiel's stats reshuffled to top out at Superb.

[vultur]

Magog
High Concept: Denarian Gorilla-Beast
Other Aspects: Muscle, Not Mind

Skills (combat form)
Superb (+5): Fists
Great (+4): Conviction, Endurance, Might
Good (+3): Alertness, Athletics, Weapons 
Fair (+2): Discipline, Intimidation, Lore
Other skills default to Average (physical) or Mediocre (otherwise).

Skills (human form)
Great (+4): Discipline, Presence, Conviction 
Good (+3): Deceit, Endurance, Athletics, Stealth
Fair (+2): Contacts, Intimidation, Lore, Weapons
Other skills default to Average (physical) or Mediocre (otherwise).

Stunts
No Pain, No Gain (Endurance): +1 physical mild consequence

Powers
Beast Change [-1]
Demonic Co-pilot [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
 The Catch: holy stuff [+2]
Human Form [+1] affecting:
Claws [-1]
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
 The Catch: holy stuff
Mythic Strength [-6]

Stress
Mental OOOO
Physical OOOOOO(OOOO), Armor:2, +1 mild consequence (human form: OOO, +1 mild consequence)
Social OOO (human form: OOOO)

Total Refresh Cost: -16

Notes: 'Just' a thug, but powerful nonetheless, with Weapon: 8 claws like Ursiel.

[Sanctaphrax]

I have a question about the human forms of some of these Denarians.

How did you decide on skills for the ones we've never seen in human form? Most of them look reasonably optimized, and it gives the more physical Denarians some versatility that I'm not sure they deserve.

PS: I totally agree with you about the Our World's overestimation of the Denarians. They're placed at plot device level, when everything we've seen in the books indicates that a Senior Council member could swat them like flies. (Except for Nick, of course).

[vultur]

I have a question about the human forms of some of these Denarians.

How did you decide on skills for the ones we've never seen in human form? Most of them look reasonably optimized, and it gives the more physical Denarians some versatility that I'm not sure they deserve.

This is true. On the other hand, they ought to pick up *something* -- a lot of Contacts, Resources etc. -- from being tied into the 'Denarian network', and in many cases centuries old. And I haven't given the thug denarians all THAT much Rapport, Deceit etc.

PS: I totally agree with you about the Our World's overestimation of the Denarians. They're placed at plot device level, when everything we've seen in the books indicates that a Senior Council member could swat them like flies. (Except for Nick, of course).

Exactly.

There seems to be a HUGE variation among them; Obsidian Statue and that lizard dude go down in one shot from Kincaid, Tessa and Ursiel are pretty frightening.

[wolff96]

There seems to be a HUGE variation among them; Obsidian Statue and that lizard dude go down in one shot from Kincaid, Tessa and Ursiel are pretty frightening.

I think the ones that are "plot device" powerful are the ones where the human and angel are working together.  In every unequal partnership case, they seem to be more like powerful mooks than super-tough.  Ursiel would be the one exception to this and he caught Harry off guard in an alley, Harry was less powerful at the time, *and* he missed the presence of ALL THREE KNIGHTS in/around the same alley.  (Those swords ought to register pretty powerfully to the old Lore sense to me.)

I think the 'lesser' Denarians work really well against 8-10 refresh characters.  Direct confrontation can be done, but it will be painful, uncertain, and DANGEROUS.  It's much more interesting to have them working to defeat the creature's purpose than to just take it in a straight-up punching match anyway. 

[Belial666]

I still disagree. -15 refresh is NOT Plot-Device powerful. It is about the refresh of a Black Court Vampire and only slightly over that of a red court vampire. Denarians are supposed to be stronger than that.


Besides, being taken out by a single shot does not make you weak. I can make you a submerged PC that can totally killinate 90% of the creatures in OW in a single attack.

[Sanctaphrax]

That actually makes sense, vultur. Just because they don't show an ability during their brief "screentime" doesn't mean they don't have it.

Besides, I suppose that I would forget how to fight normally if I spent a few hundred years turning into a giant demon gorilla every time I wanted to punch someone. It actually makes sense for Denarians to have weak combat skills in human form.

[vultur]

Quintus Cassius/Saluriel
High Concept: Sycophantic Denarian
Other Aspects: Master of Serpents; I Must Survive; A Thousand Faces; Your Own Game Against You; Follower of Nicodemus

Skills: - human form
Superb (+5): Discipline
Great (+4): Lore
Good (+3): Contacts, Conviction, Deceit
Fair (+2): Alertness, Guns, Presence, Resources, Stealth
Other skills default to Average

Skills: - snakeman form
Superb (+5): Athletics, Discipline
Great (+4): Conviction, Lore
Good (+3): Endurance, Fists
Fair (+2): Alertness, Might
Other skills default to Average

Powers:
Beast Change [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
  The Catch [+2]: holy stuff
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [–0]
Refinement [–4]
Human Form [+1] affecting:
 Inhuman Toughness [-2]
   The Catch: holy stuff
 Inhuman Speed [-2]
 Inhuman Strength [-2]

Specializations
Evocation: Elements (Fire, Spirit, Water); Power (Spirit +2, Water +2); Control (Spirit +1, Water +1)
Thaumaturgy: Complexity (Summoning +1, Necromancy +2); Control (Necromancy +1)
Focus Item: Snake Ring (+1 Offensive Power and Control with Spirit)

Stress:
Mental OOOO
Physical (human form) OOO
Physical (snakeman form) OOOO(OO), Armor:1
Social OOO

Total Refresh Cost: -19

Notes: His snake evocations are likely to be blocks restricting movement or attack, or even grapples. In combat form, he can use 7-shift spirit evocations (with his focus item) and 6-shift water evocations.