Statting a Denarian

[Surfmonkey01]

So part of my current storyline calls for a Denarian... However, I'm a little fuzzy on actually building one. Anyone already done so?  How's it work?

[ashern]

Check our the various writeups in Our World.  Flavor to taste.

Serve to terrified players!

[vultur]

In my opinion, most of the ones in Our World are way overstatted. I'd say 'low level' Denarians should come in in the low teens refresh, 'middling' types in the neighborhood of -15, and ones like Ursiel and Tessa in the high teens to low twenties (my version of Tessa would be -21, I think). Only Nicodemus is really plot device level, IMO.

I'd say the basic Denarian template should include Beast Change, Demonic Co Pilot, Supernatural Recovery, and Hellfire if you're already a spellcaster. Everything else should be individual, though most will have a lot of other powers: spellcasting, Speed, Strength, Toughness, etc.

For example, a muscle type like Obsidian Statue might have these powers:

Beast Change [-1]
Demonic Co-pilot [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-4]

A weaker spellcaster type like Rosanna might have:
Beast Change [-1]
Demonic Co-pilot [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
Evocation [-3]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
Sponsored Magic, Hellfire [-2]

Note that Tessa is called out (in SmF, I believe) as unusual among the Denarians for being probably White Council level! They do not tend to be magical heavyweights.

[Becq]

I think you're selling them short.  Yes, there are likely to be a couple who are 'green recruits' and a far from their potential.  But others have been alive for considerably longer, and they all share at least one strength: an ever-present bank of knowledge in the form of an ageless fallen angel.  And this being has personally trained/indoctrinated them 24 hours per day for as long as they've had their coin, which in most cases will have been decades if not centuries.  With a handful of exceptions, they are likely considerably more powerful than the 12 or so refresh you grant them, which is barely more powerful than a young Harry Dresden early in the series.

I think adding the Demonic Co-pilot makes a good amount of sense, and it kind of surprises me that all of the stat-blocks don't have that.  I disagree with beast change; I think that Denarians probably do not sacrifice any of their capabilities when they look human.  Instead, their 'beast form' is more a personal preference and source of intimidation than anything else.  So Human Guise fits better.

(click to show/hide)

In addition, wasn't it mentioned in one of the books that all of the Denarians were spellcasters, though some were very weak due perhaps to disinterest and lack of practice?  (I.e., possibly low ratings in Discipline and/or Conviction.)  If so, this would probably indicate a minimum of Channeling and Hellfire for each, though these would be abilities not used by some of them.

[vultur]

With a handful of exceptions, they are likely considerably more powerful than the 12 or so refresh you grant them, which is barely more powerful than a young Harry Dresden early in the series.

Well, Harry tends to come off very well against all but the very top level (Ursiel, Nic, Tessa) unless greatly outnumbered. And the 12ish refresh is only for the very weakest, like Obsidian Statue, who goes down to one bullet. I'd put Ursiel and Tessa at about -20, but they're exceptional.
I'd say the 'average' should be -15 to -16.

In Small Favor, they're really only that effective due to great numbers. 

(click to show/hide)

In addition, wasn't it mentioned in one of the books that all of the Denarians were spellcasters, though some were very weak due perhaps to disinterest and lack of practice?  (I.e., possibly low ratings in Discipline and/or Conviction.)  If so, this would probably indicate a minimum of Channeling and Hellfire for each, though these would be abilities not used by some of them.

If so, I don't remember it. I can imagine that they all have the *potential*, but I severely doubt the thug-types like Ursiel and Obsidian Statue actually ever bothered to learn.

[toturi]

I think you're selling them short.  Yes, there are likely to be a couple who are 'green recruits' and a far from their potential.  But others have been alive for considerably longer, and they all share at least one strength: an ever-present bank of knowledge in the form of an ageless fallen angel.  And this being has personally trained/indoctrinated them 24 hours per day for as long as they've had their coin, which in most cases will have been decades if not centuries.  With a handful of exceptions, they are likely considerably more powerful than the 12 or so refresh you grant them, which is barely more powerful than a young Harry Dresden early in the series.

Maybe, maybe not. Even without using his Sword, Sanya pwned Liverspots. With a piece of wood. And he was a long time willing recruit who belonged to the more "progressive" Denarian faction.

The other faction recruited losers and offered short term "contracts".

[Belial666]

Consider that the a black court vampire is -15 refresh and that they are weaker than a Denarian. I'd put the average Denarian at -17 refresh or so.

Also remember there are three "types" of Denarians;

1) New recruits or weak recruits that never had much power to begin with. These are the weakest of the Denarians and are usually Tessa's MO. Liverspots was one of them; he was smart enough to survive for centuries but character-wise, he was as pathetic as the rest.

2) Denarians overtaken entirely by their Fallen. These are very strong, usually physically, but can come off as stupid for the simple reason that the kind of Fallen that use brute force to overwhelm their hosts do not really bother to understand humans and their world. Ursiel and Magog are good examples.

3) Denarians keeping in check or cooperating with their Fallen. These are the most dangerous because they have a human's understanding of the human world and a Fallen's power. Tessa, Nicodemus, Rosanna, Thorned Namshiel and Nick and Tessa's daughter are good examples.

[toturi]

I would say that Cassius/Saluriel are not the weak on the power level. In fact, he is quite powerful, even without his Coin and I'd have put him in the middle group in terms of power.

The first group are weak with the host completely overwhelmed by the Fallen, and all the mojo being provided by the Fallen. Magog and Ursiel should be in this category. They are the footsoldiers of the Denarians.

The middle group are Denarians like Saluriel (Liverspots) and Deirdre. They are powerful but due to some reason or another not as powerful as the top tier Denarians; powerful but with gaps in their armor.

The most powerful group are Denarians are the smart ones like Nic and Tessa, powerful even without the Fallen and no real weaknesses to speak of.

[vultur]

I'm working them out on the "redone Denarians" thread at the moment; so far I have them all (barring Nic!) in the -12 to -26 range. (Tessa comes in at -26, and I have her as the most powerful [in Refresh cost; Ursiel is possibly scarier] barring Nicodemus).