Author Topic: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?  (Read 3118 times)

Offline Nyforandring

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« on: August 14, 2010, 01:39:04 AM »
I don't know too terribly much about dresdenverse lore, but my character lost his family when he accidentally allowed a demon into the world.  Since then, he's had an obsession with creating life.  To what degree is this possible?  How should I build the character to work toward this?  I know there are some artificial guard dogs mentioned in the books.  Perhaps something along those lines?

Offline MijRai

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3219
  • "For my next trick, anvils."
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 05:24:45 AM »
I don't know too terribly much about dresdenverse lore, but my character lost his family when he accidentally allowed a demon into the world.  Since then, he's had an obsession with creating life.  To what degree is this possible?  How should I build the character to work toward this?  I know there are some artificial guard dogs mentioned in the books.  Perhaps something along those lines?

Those aren't 'alive' though. Just stone, animated with a bit of the creator's willpower put in. You're thinking biomancy in thaumaturgy, or using ectoplasm.
Don't make me drop a turkey on you...

DV MijRai v1.2 YR 1 FR 1 BK+++ JB+ TH++ !WG CL SW BC+ RP++++ MC+++ SHMolly++;Murphy+

Offline luminos

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1234
  • Um... Hello?
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 05:49:26 AM »
There is a homunculus in the books, but its not what you are looking for.  The book version is a clay doll animated by a Loa.
Lawful Chaotic

Offline Lanir

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 06:04:12 AM »
The "Construct" section starting on page 31 of the Our World book will probably give you or your GM enough to go on to start mapping out how you want to handle a character doing this sort of work. In the end you'd probably be looking at how many enchanted item slots you want to devote to the idea (probably a good idea to scan over that part of the rules too). Ultimately I don't think anything in the rules will hand you a simple, easy answer but they should get you started asking the kinds of questions and details that will really help you make interacting with the idea an interesting path for your character.

Offline JosephKell

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 317
  • Total Refresh Cost: +2 (Pure Mortal)
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2010, 12:00:08 AM »
Bob sort of fits the same function as a homunculus...  So you could try to bind a spirit to a physical object and start using it as a self referencing library...  But then you are building the library from scratch...

Maybe letting it read all your books just allows you to reduce the time increment for research because of the self-referencing feature.
If you have to ask, it probably breaks a Law of Magic.  You're just trying to get the Doom of Damocles.

Offline Nyforandring

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 01:23:07 AM »
All of your answers are very useful.  The consensus seems to be that it's very possible to some degree or another according to lore.  I guess the question that leads to is, how close to true life do you think I can get and what avenues are likely choices.  I've heard the idea of binding a spirit to an object, like bob's skull.  That seems like a good plan.  What else do you think?

Offline Lanir

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 04:10:32 AM »
Not sure exactly how you'd do it. If you're thinking a Frankenstein's monster type of deal then you'd run into some issues. Such as explaining to a warden how this isn't just exactly like necromancy. Bob works in a significantly different fashion. He never animates he just possesses living creatures or flies around as a spirit. The Frankenstein monster would be a bit too similar to a zombie in the Dresden Files universe. I think if you were to port him over that's exactly what he'd end up being.

Probably the best way to go forward with an idea like this is to not concentrate on bringing dead things to life and concentrate on adding life to normally inanimate things. Or at least something that isn't in the animal kingdom. I think I'd be leaning towards a native material construct with an idea like this (making a body out of real world things rather than forming one out of ectoplasm). But animating dead flesh always makes for a zombie and you're wanting something quite a bit different from that.

Edit: Forgot to add, if your GM specifically wants to allow this and not have it be necromancy you're good to go. Customizing the game and setting to fit your stories is one of the strengths of pencil and paper roleplaying games. Just make sure you think it through.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 04:27:18 AM by Lanir »

Offline Nyforandring

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 07:46:06 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with being a character that the wardens wouldn't much like if they came across me.  It makes for some flavor and interesting story telling.  However, giving life to an inanimate object sounds the most like what I'm wanting to do.  It could even actually be a clothing mannequin...nothing wrong with that.  So we're talking about a construct now.  I'm putting together the idea fully before I propose it to my GM.  So here's what we've decided;

I'm talking about a construct.
I want it to act very lifelike.  Maybe even an artificial life if possible.

If I go with a construct, will I have trouble with the wardens?  Will it be alive?  Emotions and the whole gambit?  how will the construct function in combat situations?  Will it work on my character sheet like an enchantment?  Maybe several enchantments?  Most importantly, how do I find out how much refresh my construct will have?  how do I find out if my character is even capable of making one in the first place?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 08:29:18 PM by Nyforandring »

Offline Myrddhin

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Dangerously Creative
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 08:44:23 PM »
If I go with a construct, will I have trouble with the wardens?
Not likely. As long as it doesn't look/act/smell/etc. like a zombie, or any other walking violation of one of the Laws, and you don't go around using it to kill people you should probably be fine.

Will it be alive?
Not technically. It can seem alive, but it won't be alive in the sense of possessing a mortal soul.

Emotions and the whole gambit?
That entirely depends on how complex a construct it is. A low-end model with only a modicum, or less, of free will can't even think for itself, while a high-end model sporting the magic equivalent of advanced artificial intelligence might be capable of learning, thinking for itself, philosophy, emotions and the whole nine yards.

how will the construct function in combat situations?
This depends on what you make it of, and what you make it for. Something built for combat will likely function very well in combat, while something built to be utilitarian might be abysmal in a fight. As for controlling it, short of thinks-for-itself AI, it should simply follow your orders.

Will it work on my character sheet like an enchantment?  Maybe several enchantments?
That is entirely up to you and your GM to sort out what it counts as, if you wanted it to function as something like an ectoplasmic, or even native materials, construct which you're only able to summon to you once in awhile then this might be the way to go. Or maybe even an enchanted item a la Bob's skull which serves as the home of a spirit bound to your will which you can send out to animate/possess objects and the like.

Most importantly, how do I find out how much refresh my construct will have?  how do I find out if my character is even capable of making one in the first place?
More than anything else, this one is entirely between you and your GM to sort out. Just keep in mind that the better the construct, the more difficult it would be to make.

Offline JosephKell

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 317
  • Total Refresh Cost: +2 (Pure Mortal)
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 10:59:46 PM »
If I go with a construct, will I have trouble with the wardens?
If you enslave it to your will, then yes.  If you just offered to provide a safe place for a spirit entity to rest its metaphysical head in exchange for favors, no.  
Quote
Will it be alive?  Emotions and the whole gambit?  how will the construct function in combat situations?
Unless another player commits to playing the construct/spirit/whatever, it would use your actions in combat.  
Quote
Will it work on my character sheet like an enchantment?  Maybe several enchantments?  Most importantly, how do I find out how much refresh my construct will have?
It has no refresh, it uses up YOUR refresh.  It is effectively a collection of Supernatural Powers that you have purchased by lowering your adjusted refresh. 
Quote
how do I find out if my character is even capable of making one in the first place?

Myrddin: Difficulty to make/acquire is the weakest form of game balancing.  That is why Enchanted Items and Items of Power in DFrpg aren't resource checks, they are minus refresh powers.
If you have to ask, it probably breaks a Law of Magic.  You're just trying to get the Doom of Damocles.

Offline ironchicken

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Do homunculus exist? Can I make one?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 05:55:09 PM »
You could just make it a colourful stunt.

Bob the skull could be represented as a bonus to academics or as a focus item for Thaum.

A 'familiar' could be just a stunt (use presence for fists?) for giving a bonus in combat and colour in how you do manoeuvres. "my homunculus leaps on his back placing a 'distracted' aspect on him".