High Specialisations from Refinement

[Belial666]

It's use of Overflow. You can use overflow for any non-attack action that is in keeping with the effect that generated the overflow plus movement and supplemental actions. So, if you get 8 shifts in a guns roll to aim, you can aim with, say, 4 and use the other 4 to "brace the shotgun", getting a second aspect in the same action.

However, you could only apply one additional aspect in this way with a spell generating lots of overflow so what do you do? You spread the spell, dividing both the shifts and the control roll and apply 1 +1 from overflow aspects on yourself plus 1 +1 from overflow aspects on your intended target or the area.
With 16 shifts and 16 control, there is almost no chance others will resist you, even if you split shifts to hit both yourself and them.

[JosephKell]

Citation please.  Or to put it another way, complete this sentence: "On Page [FILL IN BLANK] of Your Story, it says (not verbatim) that one maneuver can apply two aspects."

[finnmckool]

That's only if you greatly exceed your target, by the by.

[Myrddhin]

The Overflow rules are on YS 214, but they expressly bar you from taking offensive actions (which applying Aspects to other people, i.e. Aiming, is). Further, the rules for using a spell to apply Aspects are different from the rules for doing it with a Skill, namely that by Spell the extra shifts you kick in to duration don't make it sticky, they just make it last for that many more exchanges at which point it simply poofs (obvious exceptions, like lighting something On Fire, not withstanding). As written, evocation maneuvers say "...a temporary aspect...," it's only when you get into Thaumaturgy that it says you can slap on more than one at a time.

[Belial666]

You're missing something though; sponsored magic allows thaumaturgy to be used as evocation. That's why I added it to our broken mage.

Also, where does it say that aiming is an offensive action? The only maneuers that are considered attacks are those under the indirect attack heading - the others are not referred to as attacks at all.

[Myrddhin]

Okay, yes, I did miss that he had Hellfire, and given the proposed circumstances and intentions I can't see many sponsor for it saying no to beefing up for such a destructive follow-up shot. Also, kudos on using the Foci specialization for his Thaum, I don't think I've seen that on any builds before.

As far as Aiming being an offensive action, you're applying "In My Sights" to the opponent which makes that maneuver an offensive maneuver, just like the example evocations Immobilization and Whirlwind are listed as offensive maneuver for applying aspects to a target. In your shotgun example were you to switch the order, so that the Overflow came off the Aiming maneuver, then I wouldn't see any problem with it, provided the GM gave you an Overflow action for it.

[wyvern]

Multiple aspects from one maneuver-based spell is listed under thaumaturgy on YS265; if you've got an appropriate sponsored magic you can do that via evocation for certain; doing it with evocation without sponsored magic is debatable - I would classify that as a possible houserule.

[JosephKell]

Okay.  But each has to land still.

So even if you employ two maneuvers at 4 shifts each, the target might still evade them.

On the same page (YS 265, maybe 264) it talks about landing an aspect on a guy with a Conviction of 3.  At a minimum you need 3 shifts.  But to be fairly certain of success you need to do 8 shifts (1 more than +4 on 4dF).

If someone wants to do "evocative sponsored magic" rituals to place 2 8 shift maneuvers, feel free to blow out the back of your brain.

Although this passage seems to show that I am wrong about ambush rules applying to placing maneuvers.

[Belial666]

To land? The example wizard in question has a 16 shift, +16 attack spell as his smallest rote. He could land hits on anyone save a god. (or an equally-powerful defensive-minded wizard)