Red Court Infected - is this idea even possible

[Teagan]

A friend just got the DFRPG and we were talking character creation. I brought up an idea for a character but it has put everyone in a quandry as to wither it's even possible or not...

Idea - White Court Virgin ends up being attacked, but amazingly enough not killed, during a fight with some Red Court vamps & is now a Red Court Infected.

Question - Is this even possible?!

[Deadmanwalking]

Not as written.

Becoming a Red Court (or Infected) is actually a specific ritual, not something that can occur by accident.

Now, if you mean can a WCV ever become RCI...it really depends on the GM, there's not a lot of evidence either for or against. Personally, I'd be inclined to disallow it, mostly because it sounds like an extremely depressing and non-fun character to play.

[Crion]

I'm with Deadmanwalking on this, but with some other thoughts tossed in.

Also, I think I saw a thread debating this a few months ago, and one of the arguments stated that the demons of the Red and White Court Vampires probably wouldn't want to get along very long, if at all. One would probably end up asserting dominance and running the show.

Being a White Court Virgin who's a Red Court Infected sounds like a character that would be out of control very quickly, and I don't mean the numbers either. The idea of having to fight a hunger for blood AND a hunger for emotions, and knowing that if you feed you will probably kill someone and make that final change, may seem like a decent RP option, it could lead to a lost character faster than anything else.

[Doc Nova]

For a PC, I'd have to nix the idea for all the reasons already listed.  For a tragic NPC that would either need to be battled against...or saved...the concept has some merit and possibility.

[TheMouse]

For a PC, I'd have to nix the idea for all the reasons already listed.  For a tragic NPC that would either need to be battled against...or saved...the concept has some merit and possibility.

This idea strikes me as backward.

The PCs should be allowed to be the special snowflakes. I mean, they're the ones the game is about.  As long as their special snowflake-ness doesn't mess the game up for anyone else sitting at the table, nothing should be so out there and unique that it's not doable.

Maybe I've been running Exalted for too long, but I find that most of the time I say some variant on, "Yes," when running games.

[kihon]

While the White Court Demon & the Red Court Demon are fighting each other - you might, just might remain in control... aka, blade type character... all of their strengths, non of their weaknesses.

[Bruce Coulson]

This is an idea I'd want to examine carefully.  First, why does the player want this origin?  What ideas do they have concerning the possible reasons for this to happen?

Consider the repercussions.  If not a breach of the Accords, this incident would be a SERIOUS point of contention between the White and Red Courts in the area.  If a war hasn't broken out, then there would be skirmishes all the time, with hapless supernaturals (including the PCs) caught in the crossfire.

Why was it done?  The Red Court doesn't do things 'just because they can'.  Was it a test run to see if they could convert WCV, weakening the White Court?  If so, why did they show their hand now, and why did they convert this character?

My personal feelings is that the character is a Red Court Infected; they lose all the special abilities and template of the WCV, as the Red Court demon overwrites the prior curse.

I'd first find out what the players' reasons and ideas were for this character.

[Doc Nova]

This idea strikes me as backward.

The PCs should be allowed to be the special snowflakes. I mean, they're the ones the game is about.  As long as their special snowflake-ness doesn't mess the game up for anyone else sitting at the table, nothing should be so out there and unique that it's not doable.

Maybe I've been running Exalted for too long, but I find that most of the time I say some variant on, "Yes," when running games.

I completely agree...I guess I should clarify and say that, sure, a PC could play this, but with the understanding that there's likely to be no "happy ending".  I wouldn't want a player thinking things will work out well for a character like this...not without some major assistance or interference.  It isn't that the concept isn't doable, only that things would be heavily stacked against them.

[Bruce Coulson]

Per the RPG books, there is no cure for Red Court vampirism.  If you change that, you'll be changing the entire tone of the game.  Part of the appeal of the game (to me) is that sometimes (well, more than sometimes) bad things happen to good people, and the good guys can only mitigate the damage (sometimes).  Such a character will most likely have a very dark ending (although it could be a heroic ending as well).  If the player and your group is either willing to live with that, or willing to change the tone of the game for your campaign, then you should be fine.

[Teagan]

This is an idea I'd want to examine carefully.  First, why does the player want this origin?  What ideas do they have concerning the possible reasons for this to happen?

Looking at the makeup of out little group I had the urge to play a Vampire but not a full blown of either Red or White Court.  I thought it would be an interesting (and yes, I know, TRAGIC) twist in the plot of the game.
 

Consider the repercussions.  If not a breach of the Accords, this incident would be a SERIOUS point of contention between the White and Red Courts in the area.  If a war hasn't broken out, then there would be skirmishes all the time, with hapless supernaturals (including the PCs) caught in the crossfire.

When is there not skirmishes between the Courts?  :-)

Why was it done?  The Red Court doesn't do things 'just because they can'.  Was it a test run to see if they could convert WCV, weakening the White Court?  If so, why did they show their hand now, and why did they convert this character?

My thought is that it is a personal vendetta (ie, not sanctioned by the Red Court) between my character and that particular Red Court vampire.  Basically, the Red Court vampire was "wronged" in some way by my character personally.  I would leave it up to the DM to figure out what exactly brought it on between these two.  (Yes, he's actually excited about the idea. There was an evil grin & some rubbing together of his hands when I mentioned it.)

My personal feelings is that the character is a Red Court Infected; they lose all the special abilities and template of the WCV, as the Red Court demon overwrites the prior curse.

I'd first find out what the players' reasons and ideas were for this character.

My reason/idea is that a member(s) of my characters immediate family would be being protecting her tragic secret 1) from the Red Court so they don't find out that they can infect a WCV (which could, in the long run, wipe out the White Court) & 2) from the rest of the White Court so they don't just kill out right for being "tainted" or end up using her as a bargaining chip for a favor from the Red Court.

Why would the Red Court demon would overwrite the inherited White Court one?  I'm not expecting this character to be very sane since there would be two demons fighting for control.  I don't expect her to live long either but we can give a shot & see how it goes.

[Teagan]

This idea strikes me as backward.

The PCs should be allowed to be the special snowflakes. I mean, they're the ones the game is about.  As long as their special snowflake-ness doesn't mess the game up for anyone else sitting at the table, nothing should be so out there and unique that it's not doable.

Maybe I've been running Exalted for too long, but I find that most of the time I say some variant on, "Yes," when running games.

Thanks, that was kind of my thought too.  Why do the NPCs get to be battled or saved but not the PC?  And the group that I will be playing with were all there when I brought up this concept & we all started seeing how at least 2 of them would have "guest roles" in my story/background.  We are all very aware of the tragic-ness of playing this type of character but we're all twisted enough that it just might work.

[finnmckool]

In world I think this character would be spending every second of every day sitting in a chair and rocking. Because, mechanics aside, vampires are things from the Nevernever that invade your body/mind until they take over, the Red just does it more physically/literally after you've fed the first time, the White from inside your mind/soul. So you'd essentially end up with two demons fighting each other and the host for control of the body which would be fairly endless, and I would think tiring and tedious. I think it'd be a neat NPC...

[Bruce Coulson]

Why only a Red Court Infected?  Well, for one thing in my campaigns I don't like my brain exploding from overly-complex metaphysical questions...

My thoughts were you have two demons fighting for control of one (1) host body.  Demons, and evil in general, do not work and play well with others...especially other demons.  So, it would be a struggle for dominance, and one demon (the stronger) would win out.

Now, there's some possibilties for the character there.  Perhaps the winning demon had to cut a deal with the host in order to win decisively?  Perhaps the other demon conceded, but suffered less than total destruction?  You could even reverse this, and have the character a White Court vampire, but with much greater control over their demon because of a re-negotiated deal with their host.

And by 'skirmishes', I mean gun-toting minions blowing up each others' holdings and possessions and allies.  Think of a serious gang war, with bodies everywhere, not just the occasional concession and missing vampire.

If the existence of the character is a 'secret', then the war becomes a little more shadowy...but no less intense.  The RCV responsible now knows a powerful secret...one that can lead to a major promotion if they can survive.  The White Court wants to silence the RCV permanently, but can't explain why to either the Red Court or their fellow White Court.  The RCV could call for aid...but that means giving up their secret and so losing the benefits of the risk taken.  And everyone who doesn't know the secret would want to find out why these two groups in this area are in a no-holds-barred battle to the death.

[JosephKell]

The PCs should be allowed to be the special snowflakes. I mean, they're the ones the game is about.  As long as their special snowflake-ness doesn't mess the game up for anyone else sitting at the table, nothing should be so out there and unique that it's not doable.

Here is the big thing.  There is nothing more annoying than someone always talking about how "dark and tortured" they are.

Again, since it is a specific ritual that makes someone RCI, I have trouble accepting that it would just happen to a WCVirgin (that could cause major tension between the two courts).

That said, if the RCI WCVirgin were to kill by (blood) feeding, I would probably have the White Court stuff go away (but if they "emotion" kill, they would become a WCV with RCI template).

[Teagan]

Well, we've decided to put this aside for now & I'm just going to play a RCI who works/worked for the White Court as a paralegal.  Thanks for all your input folks.  We may play around at seeing if the original thought can be possible at a later time.