[Item of Power] Can you build it with Mortal Stunts, instead of Powers?

[Kiero]

It's sort of assumed that an Item of Power has Powers, though the Swords of the Cross do have some basically mortal boosts (like the +1 Weapons), so perhaps there's precedence.

What are people's views on an Item of Power granting Mortal Stunts?

[zenten]

I'm fine with it.  I'm even cool with it not counting as a power if you only use mortal stunts.  I don't think you can as per the RAW, but there's nothing game breaking in it.

[ways and means]

I'm fine with it.  I'm even cool with it not counting as a power if you only use mortal stunts.  I don't think you can as per the RAW, but there's nothing game breaking in it.

I think the +2 on top of a +2 could be a little unbalanced (if combined an IoP with a pure-mortal set up) otherwise it seems perfectly balanced.

[Tsunami]

I'd say yes. An Item of Power can contain stunts.

But the Item of Power in itself is a supernatural power.
So you loose your +2 Pure mortal bonus even if you only add stunts to the item.

Basically an item of power can impart abilities that are equal to mortal stunts in effect, but supernatural in nature.

[SunlessNick]

Are you suggesting a supernatural item whose effects are expressed only through mortal stunts?  In which case, I'd say sure, though I'd agree with Tsunami about deep-sixing the pure mortal bonus.

Or are you suggesting a superlative - via high tech or whatever - but mundane object that effectively provides relevant stunts as long as you're using it?  In that case, I'd say Item of Power is a pretty good way to model it - and I'd say keep the pure mortal bonus, but lose the general supernatural effects of IoP of course.  Also, it might be hard to come up with enough plausible stunts to make the IoP discount worth having (since it can't mitigate the refresh cost past -1).  But in principle, I think it sounds fine.

[ARedthorn]

That said- the cost break for having a group of stunts through an IoP and the bonus for being a Pure Mortal are pretty close... it's more or less a wash.

[Kiero]

Hadn't really considered the Pure Mortal angle, mostly I was just wondering whether you could use Mortal Stunts on an ostensibly "magical" item. Like giving a magical weapon Wall of Death, for example.

[SunlessNick]

Absolutely in that case.  The ability to use it better or in special ways might not have the grandeur associated with "of Power", but it's an absolutely logical ability for a magical weapon or tool to have.

[ARedthorn]

YS158 states that you can build new powers from scratch-

But other than that, they’re built much like several mortal stunts all smashed together,
getting two shifts (and maybe a little extra) of effect for every one refresh point they cost. As
such, new powers may be built using much of the same logic as mortal stunts provided
on page 147—so long as they’re appropriately enabled by the character’s high concept and
chosen character template. When constructing new supernatural abilities, simply use the
stunt construction rules from page 147. For each stunt’s worth of function (whether in shifts,
added trappings or scope, etc.) that the new power provides, price that power at a cost of –1
refresh. Since taking a power means you get no Pure Mortal refresh bonus (page 73), a –1 refresh
power is allowed to be a little more effective than an otherwise equivalent stunt.

Push comes to shove then, you could build a Wall-of-Death equivalent power, with the same effect and some to spare... say, perhaps:
Sweeping Death:
When you engage in melee combat, you're a whirling dervish- a manifestation of bloody Death himself. This allows you to use the Weapons Skill to make spray attacks, and grants a free 1-shift move (representing you charging through a zone cutting targets to ribbons) either before or after the attack.

If that seems a bit much for you, or isn't the flavor you like, try:
When you engage in melee combat, you're a whirling dervish- a manifestation of bloody Death himself. This allows you to use the Weapons Skill to make spray attacks, and grants a +1 bonus to defense whenever you do, as your blade drives them back and provides a literal wall. Come near and strike me, if you fear not my blade.

[Kiero]

YS158 states that you can build new powers from scratch-

Push comes to shove then, you could build a Wall-of-Death equivalent power, with the same effect and some to spare... say, perhaps:
Sweeping Death:
When you engage in melee combat, you're a whirling dervish- a manifestation of bloody Death himself. This allows you to use the Weapons Skill to make spray attacks, and grants a free 1-shift move (representing you charging through a zone cutting targets to ribbons) either before or after the attack.

If that seems a bit much for you, or isn't the flavor you like, try:
When you engage in melee combat, you're a whirling dervish- a manifestation of bloody Death himself. This allows you to use the Weapons Skill to make spray attacks, and grants a +1 bonus to defense whenever you do, as your blade drives them back and provides a literal wall. Come near and strike me, if you fear not my blade.

Oh, so if I've got a character who already has powers, I'm better off coming up with a custom power than using a Mortal Stunt?

I've currently got Wall of Death as a Stunt for my Scion character, sounds like I should look for one other effect to tack on for a -1 Refresh power instead.

[wyvern]

While one certainly could justify looking for stunt+ custom powers... I'm a fairly firm believer in "If you ought to have stunt X, take stunt X."  Then again, this may be a result of having to deal with a player who looked at everything in terms of power-gaming efficiency and refused to take any stunt/power/whatever that wasn't "optimal", even if it was something that the character really ought to have.  (Like claws.  He refused to take claws, preferring to use sponsored biomantic magic to try to grant himself claws for a scene at a time.)

The other thing to keep in mind is: if it's a Power, there are more ways to shut it down.  Thresholds, magic circles, etc, all give the GM reason to hold up a fate point and say "No, sorry, your powers aren't available here."  Stunts don't have that drawback.

[ARedthorn]

Agreed. It can get cheesy fast, since there's suddenly no reason for a supernatural character to ever take stunts, when powers are just sitting right there.

The good rule-of-thumb ought to be the effect you're getting. If it's an effect any normal human can pull, it ought to be a stunt. If it's supernatural in nature... it's a power.
I would say that in this case- since the effect is one granted by the IoP- the sword granting that skill or moving on it's own... it could easily qualify as legit power.

Most of the rest of the time... I'd just use Wall-of-Death and call that good enough.

[ALurker]

While Items of Power can't give stunts by RAW there is another option that doesn't require any houserules/houseruled creation. You just have an item with the Mimic Abilities power (though this of course requires the GM's permission since it is in the Shapeshifting category). Either you find an opponent with the stunts you want and you don't switch out afterwards, you write it into the backstory with yet more DM permission, or you and the DM could ignore the fluff and just pretend in game that the item just gives the stunts even though mechanically the item is actually giving you Mimic Abilities.

[Becq]

Keep in mind also that all powers must be 'justified' by your template and high concept; stunts do not.  This is why -1 powers can be a bit stronger than -1 stunts (YS158: "And because they’re based on certain prerequisites (via character templates), they’re allowed to be a little more potent per refresh point than their mortal stunt cousins").  So while wizards do not generally develop a supernatural knack for placement of explosives (Craftsmanship/Demolitions Training), they could easily have spent some time in the Marines or had some tutoring.