NPC Fate Points

[Bernd]

Hey Guys!

Are there any rules regarding Fate Points for NPCs? I can find a rule in YS333 (the second box), but this is only regarding main NPCs. Don't supporting and nameless NPCs get Fate Points at all? Can they use an infinite amount of Fate Points?

And everytime a NPC (this is also true for PCs) uses a Fate Point to get an advantage, the disadvanteged Character receives that Fate Point, right?

Thanks!

[luminos]

Nameless NPC's aren't important enough to get fate points.  Supporting NPC's are sometimes important enough to get them.  They definitely don't get an infinite amount of fate points.  If the PC's are fighting a group of nameless and supporting characters, you might give the group of NPC's a community pool of fate points in accordance with the challenge rating you want to give the fight.

Every time a character uses a fate point to invoke or compel someone elses aspects (including ones from maneuvers and consequences) the disadvantaged character gets a fate point.  They don't get a fate point if the person paying a fate point uses his own aspects.

[Bernd]

Nameless NPC's aren't important enough to get fate points.  Supporting NPC's are sometimes important enough to get them.  They definitely don't get an infinite amount of fate points.  If the PC's are fighting a group of nameless and supporting characters, you might give the group of NPC's a community pool of fate points in accordance with the challenge rating you want to give the fight.

Are there any guidelines in the books about that?

Every time a character uses a fate point to invoke or compel someone elses aspects (including ones from maneuvers and consequences) the disadvantaged character gets a fate point.  They don't get a fate point if the person paying a fate point uses his own aspects.

Yeah, this is what I meant. Thank you.

[JosephKell]

Every time a character uses a fate point to invoke or compel someone elses aspects (including ones from maneuvers and consequences) the disadvantaged character gets a fate point.  They don't get a fate point if the person paying a fate point uses his own aspects.

I know invoking permanent aspects does this, are you sure that maneuver aspects and consequences transfer fate points?

Either way, free tags don't give a fate point to the target.

Can a person give up the tag to do a "no fate point" compel?

I am trying to think of a Dresden example, but I am having trouble.  Maybe the Mind Fog?  Does the "Mind Fog" aspect do a compel for them to go to sleep?

[Archmage_Cowl]

Can a person give up the tag to do a "no fate point" compel?

I've been allowing tag compels. But the person being compelled still can buy it off or if they accept it they still get a fate point, but because it was a tag the person tag compeling it didnt have to spend a fate point.

Though truth be told i'm not sure i like this rule. I've had it for a while but sometimes it seems kinda off base when it's used so i may do away with it, since it is only a house rule.

[Bernd]

Ok, follow-up question: If nameless and supporting NPCs don't have Fate Points, they cannot invoke aspects coming from consequences, right? Doesn't that seem odd? If I have a player whose character has the moderate consequence BROKEN RIPS, then no NPC can invoke this aspect to do more damage when he punches the PC in his rips. Would you compel this aspect in such situations?

Do supporting NPCs get Fate Points when a player uses a Fate Point to invoke a consequence? I'd say yes, but I'm not sure.

[JosephKell]

Re-read the consequence section.  It is WAY down there (YS 204, paragraph between the two examples).

"Further, the attacker that inflicted the consequence gets one tag on it (which he may give to an ally), just like aspects placed by maneuvers."

[Lanir]

From what I've read so far (sorry, no play examples to draw from yet) I don't think I'd go with tag compels. I just re-read the pages on how compels work and it sounds like if you want to make that sort of call as a player against an NPC you're intended to pay for it.

Also, great catch on the consequences by JosephKell. I'd missed that myself.

Starting to think I may need to jot down some summaries on how to juggle Aspects. It feels like there's a lot of consistency in how they work when I see little bits like this but I don't recall seeing any lists with bullet points about it. The idea itself isn't complex but there's just such a huge amount of things you can do with Aspects that it seems easy to get sidetracked from the basics.

[Bernd]

Re-read the consequence section.  It is WAY down there (YS 204, paragraph between the two examples).

"Further, the attacker that inflicted the consequence gets one tag on it (which he may give to an ally), just like aspects placed by maneuvers."

Thanks. I overread that.

From what I've read so far (sorry, no play examples to draw from yet) I don't think I'd go with tag compels. I just re-read the pages on how compels work and it sounds like if you want to make that sort of call as a player against an NPC you're intended to pay for it.

I think this is true. It reads: "A tag is a special move that you might be able to do when you're invoking aspects other than your own." No word about compels.

[Bernd]

I just found the rules for NPCs and Fate Points. Page 351, plus rules for a Fate Point Pool on p. 352.

[infusco]

Also, take note that Fate points that are tossed to players for their characters getting invoked or compelled by NPCs only normally get them at the end of the scene. Otherwise, the back and forth Fate point chucking would just get silly.

[JosephKell]

Are you sure Infusco?  I though the point was awarded after the action that caused it (compel or enemy invoking for advantage) is complete.

So that you can't just be like "You are invoking my consequence?  Okay, I'll use that point you just gave me to tag this aspect of mine to outset it."

[infusco]

Well, Page 106 of Your Story says either at the end of the scene (out-of-conflict), or at the end of the exchange (in conflict), so you might be right.

Personally, mind you, I'd always judge it to be at the end of the scene. Conflict tires people out ... having someone invoke your sprained ankle on their attack should not make you stronger for the followup attack three seconds later just because it's a new round (exchange). As a compromise, you could say that the target gets the Fate point at the end of *their* next exchange, which could be the following round of combat.

[JosephKell]

Well, many NPCs might not survive a conflict to get those fate points, so end of scene awarding seems a little skewed to the PCs.

But more fate points = more outrageous hilarity.

I do like the "at the end of next exchange" thing.

But don't forget that fate points are only "passed" if you invoke the target's aspect for advantage over them (an advantage that is a detriment to the target).  Since most NPCs aren't going to start with fate points, they will only get them when the PCs invoke their consequences or sticky aspects (the free tags don't do it).  NPCs might not live 2 exchanges past their first consequence.

To use your sprained ankle example.  Sure, someone just invoked my sprained ankle, but now I can invoke my sprained ankle to fall over at a more opportune moment (thereby dodging a bullet that would've hit me).

[infusco]

LOL!!

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of invoking your own consequence for a positive outcome
On the other hand, I'd be okay if you also ended up creating a maneuver on yourself with the aspect Wincing And On My Ass that can be freely tagged by your foe.