[Game Mechanics] Assessment a free action? Or only while counterspelling?

[Arcteryx]

As per YS253 - that's the only place I see where assessment is described as a free action. Is counterspelling the only time where this is so?

[computerking]

As per YS253 - that's the only place I see where assessment is described as a free action. Is counterspelling the only time where this is so?

I had noticed this too. As far as I can tell, it's only a free action for counterspelling. That was why I was promoting the idea (in another topic: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23448.0.html) that counterspelling was possible for use against evocation, as well as Thaumaturgy. I was kinda shouted down on that point.

I'd love to hear more ideas on the subject. Or maybe some official word...

[Haru]

An assessment action usually takes quite a while, that's why you usually don't do it during a conflict, but long before, to prepare for a conflict. In the case of the counterspell, the assessment is part of the action, not actually a free action. When you do a counterspell, you always do the assessment action at the same time.

However, I would only allow it like that if the wizard in question opens his sight. That way, he has a clear look at the spell and can attempt to counter it, much like Harry did with the barbed wire spell in GP. Without the sight, the assessment action would take longer.

[Holocron.Coder]

An assessment action usually takes quite a while, that's why you usually don't do it during a conflict, but long before, to prepare for a conflict. In the case of the counterspell, the assessment is part of the action, not actually a free action. When you do a counterspell, you always do the assessment action at the same time.

However, I would only allow it like that if the wizard in question opens his sight. That way, he has a clear look at the spell and can attempt to counter it, much like Harry did with the barbed wire spell in GP. Without the sight, the assessment action would take longer.

That was more of a thaumaturgical counterspell, IMO. The go-to example for normal counterspelling is when Harry removes the conjured snakes spell cast by Casius on Susan. He didn't have his sight up and was able to counterspell the ongoing effect without taking a lot of time to assess.

I would allow counterspelling of evocations, but at an automatically tagged penalty (such as "Hard to counter something that fast," which is then tagged for -2 on either the assessment (most likely) or the actual counterspelling (less likely), evocator's choice).

[Masurao]

It does seem that the book (or at least the PDF-version) contradicts itself on the part of Assessments, when it comes to normal Assessments, it says:

All assessment efforts require the use of a
significant chunk of time, usually indicated in
the skill write-up. However, this time invested in
preparation allows these skills to come to bear in
more time pressured environments (like a fight)
where they would not typically be useful.

page 115

And about counterspelling:

You can try to guess—but if you don’t bring
enough, the counterspell won’t work; if you
bring too much, you run the risk of not being
able to control it all. Figuring this out requires
an assessment action (which is a free action, so
you can do it just before you intend to counterspell)
using Lore.

as mentioned before, page 253

Perhaps they shouldn't have made assessment bold in the counterspelling text, so as not to link it to the other type of Assessment... Looks like a slight 'mistake' to me. Otherwise, yes, it is only time you can make one as a free action.

However, I would only allow it like that if the wizard in question opens his sight. That way, he has a clear look at the spell and can attempt to counter it, much like Harry did with the barbed wire spell in GP. Without the sight, the assessment action would take longer.

Well, Harry didn't use the Sight when he countered Cassius' Snake-spell, he just estimated the power with his mystical senses (Lore skill). Besides, would that mean you don't allow the countering of Evocation effects? (I wouldn't, usually, as I stated before)

[Haru]

Well, Harry didn't use the Sight when he countered Cassius' Snake-spell, he just estimated the power with his mystical senses (Lore skill). Besides, would that mean you don't allow the countering of Evocation effects? (I wouldn't, usually, as I stated before)

I thought about it (I think I even made a post about it somewhere), but by now I arrived at a no. Evocation effects are way to fast to counter them, that's what blocks are for. I would allow a counterspell block against magical attacks using a counterspell specialization, which would essentially just be a block with a different narration.

I would handle a situation like Harry countering the snakes as a "blind" counterspell: You set the power of your counterspell as high as you think you'd need and if you are lucky, it was enough to disrupt the construct of the spell. If not, nothing happens, except you receive casting stress. So better aim high

[Arcteryx]

That's interesting. OK, so I'm glad I wasn't missing something there on not seeing it as a free action elsewhere.

What about, say, if you're a Warden and you've got one of the Luccio-vintage Warden Swords; would you allow its baked-in counterspell to take on an evocation?

[Holocron.Coder]

What about, say, if you're a Warden and you've got one of the Luccio-vintage Warden Swords; would you allow its baked-in counterspell to take on an evocation?

If I recall, it was used exactly in that way by Morgan. Some scene with him cutting an energy blast/ball in half after it was thrown at him?

[Haru]

I think this should be one of those moments where the rule of cool comes into play. Is it cool, if the character parries a fireball with his sword? Absolutely, so go for it. Simply use the Fantastic counterspell as a one time reactive block and you are good to go.

[devonapple]

Assessments vary WIDELY in time scale, and I think they can *be* a free action in some cases. The depth of information won't be a lot, but some things can be managed with a quick period of study, with a wide variety of skills.

GMs are free to consult the Time Chart to scale the difficulty up or down. Assessments are supposed to be all over the map. Assessing the construction of a barrow is a different time frame than Assessing the functioning of a clockwork mechanism. Ultimately, the GM has to adjudicate Assessments based on what works at the table.

So, assuming it isn't an editorial error, I feel we can take the RAW at face value when it says that Lore Assessments to scope the shifts needed for a counterspell are a free action.

Counterspelling a one-shot Evocation spell would, I feel, also require a readied action.

A Warden's sword - being an Enchanted Item with the Counterspell ability - could, I feel, be activated defensively without too much narrative strain.

[computerking]

I think the game developers might have intended the free action assessment as part of a counterspell specifically for use in combat. Not as a defense against incoming evocations spells, but to allow the use of a counterspell ability without the -1 for casting the spell and performing a supplemental action. Perhaps they thought that counterspelling was weak enough on its own without tacking on an extra -1.

I say "weak" because of the low level of utility it has. I would say that counterspelling incoming evocation effects would be mostly out of the question. The margin text conversation between Billy & Harry says,

I don’t think counterspells can be done reactively, due to the assessment  requirement.

. However, I would consider a character with a held action able to proactively counterspell, just as someone with a held action can wait until an enemy's about to throw a punch, then perform a proactive Block against them attacking in a purely physical fight.

[Arcteryx]

I totally missed that part of the sidenote...

We'll have a session in-play sometime next week, I'll ask the player to give it a try with his enchanted weapon - he has a poor man's version of the Warden Sword so we'll get to see how it plays out.