So What Kind of Items in Focus Items?

[Todjaeger]

Firstly: I agree that the yea or nay on tattoos/bodyart acting as focus or enchanted items is really a 'house' rule.  Just a couple things I wanted to point out to others.

Secondly:  If tattoos are allowed as 'items', then some determination as to size their effective size would need to be made.  In YS page# 281, there is a chart in the upper right corner of the page which shows how many focus or enchanted item slots an item can have, depending on the size of the item.  Given the examples used a ring, fist or rod, basketball or staff, it would suggest that just having a large surface area is not quite enough.

Thirdly:  It was suggested that the needles used to ink the tattoo could be considered part of the item that is being enchanted or attuned.  Here I disagree, the tattoo needles could be focus items for Thaumaturgy (Crafting) specializations.  However, the tattoo needles are used to make the tattoo, they are not part of the tattoo.

Lastly:  In one of the later books (Small Favor?  I don't remember exactly which one at present) Harry was cleaning his duster, and there was some mention of the magical symbols he'd inked and etched into it using tattoo needles.  In short, the symbols and designs, along with the intent were used to make the duster itself enchanted.  The symbols by themselves were not enchanted, they were part of the enchantment.  A tattoo to my way of thinking would be the same as one of the symbols Harry used.  So the choice would be to allow a person to enchant their skin, or have them enchant items separate from themselves.  Since tattoos or a person's skin, is not really a separate 'item' from the person, that is why I would not allow a person to use tattoos as focus or enchanted items.  In a mechanical sense, allowing a person to tattoo a focus onto themselves would effectively bypass the limitation on specialization bonuses in the description on Refinements on YS page# 182, with Refinements, additional specializations can be added onto elements, but it follows a tree similar to the skill tree, i.e. before a caster can take a +2 Power bonus to Water, they also need to have a +1 bonus to Control (Water), or any other specialization, before Power (Water ) can be expanded.  By allowing a caster to essentially have their body be their focus, they can ignore that restriction.

[finnmckool]

Yeah but a potion is just "magic liquid." Why couldn't it apply to ink? If the magic Harry inscribes into his coat makes the coat an item why can't the same process work for my skin? I'm fine with all the size rules applying. But all the things it takes to do magic are inherrently there for tattoos. And when is a tattoo ruined? Well any breaking of the skin would disrupt the spell and it wouldn't work until that break had completely healed. If it NEVER heals, that's a ruined tattoo.

[CMEast]

Secondly:  If tattoos are allowed as 'items', then some determination as to size their effective size would need to be made.  In YS page# 281, there is a chart in the upper right corner of the page which shows how many focus or enchanted item slots an item can have, depending on the size of the item.  Given the examples used a ring, fist or rod, basketball or staff, it would suggest that just having a large surface area is not quite enough.

Tattoos can be different sizes, part of the size is also how obvious/noticable it is. So a small, discreet tattoo can be a minor focus and, as the tattoos become larger and more prominent they can handle more power.

Thirdly:  It was suggested that the needles used to ink the tattoo could be considered part of the item that is being enchanted or attuned.  Here I disagree, the tattoo needles could be focus items for Thaumaturgy (Crafting) specializations.  However, the tattoo needles are used to make the tattoo, they are not part of the tattoo.

Focus items can't be used to make other focus items, but that isn't the point. The ink and the needles are just part of the ritual process, the end result is the crafted item and I think that a tattoo is an excellent ritual, even without magic involved.

Lastly:  In one of the later books (Small Favor?  I don't remember exactly which one at present) Harry was cleaning his duster, and there was some mention of the magical symbols he'd inked and etched into it using tattoo needles.  In short, the symbols and designs, along with the intent were used to make the duster itself enchanted.  The symbols by themselves were not enchanted, they were part of the enchantment.  A tattoo to my way of thinking would be the same as one of the symbols Harry used.  So the choice would be to allow a person to enchant their skin, or have them enchant items separate from themselves.  Since tattoos or a person's skin, is not really a separate 'item' from the person, that is why I would not allow a person to use tattoos as focus or enchanted items.  In a mechanical sense, allowing a person to tattoo a focus onto themselves would effectively bypass the limitation on specialization bonuses in the description on Refinements on YS page# 182, with Refinements, additional specializations can be added onto elements, but it follows a tree similar to the skill tree, i.e. before a caster can take a +2 Power bonus to Water, they also need to have a +1 bonus to Control (Water), or any other specialization, before Power (Water ) can be expanded.  By allowing a caster to essentially have their body be their focus, they can ignore that restriction.

So you're arguing that this house rule can't work because of a house rule you've just come up with? As it's a house rule and not mentioned in any books, you're free to ignore it in your own games; it hasn't come up in any of mine but I'd certainly allow it.

[CableRouter]

I think removing a focus item is generally a plot point anyway. Focus items can be belt buckles, knuckledusters and nose rings, none of which are easy to remove.

LOL, in a grapple, a nose ring is entirely too easy to remove.

[Todjaeger]

Tattoos can be different sizes, part of the size is also how obvious/noticable it is. So a small, discreet tattoo can be a minor focus and, as the tattoos become larger and more prominent they can handle more power.
Focus items can't be used to make other focus items, but that isn't the point. The ink and the needles are just part of the ritual process, the end result is the crafted item and I think that a tattoo is an excellent ritual, even without magic involved.
So you're arguing that this house rule can't work because of a house rule you've just come up with? As it's a house rule and not mentioned in any books, you're free to ignore it in your own games; it hasn't come up in any of mine but I'd certainly allow it.

Actually no, that wasn't where I was heading with it...

Re: Tattoo needles as a focus, if the tattoo was an enchanted item instead of a focus, then the tattoo needles themselves could be a Thaumaturgy crafting focus, with the resulting impact on power, frequency, etc that a crafting focus would normally provide.

The other idea with tattoos (again, this works better for enchanted vs. focus items) but the tattoos could be used to enchant someone's skin with effects, not unlike Harry ended up doing with his duster.

Again these are all just ideas, it is entirely up to the playing group to decide what they will/won't allow.