A Compelling Question About Aspects

[YuriPup]

And remember these aren't XP that you are handing out. Your player's aren't going to become insanely more powerful for having 100 fate--its not like they can cash them in for an extra refresh, or even a skill point.

[CMEast]

Each fate point is the equivalent of unspent refresh. Fate points are the equivalent to two temporary skill points in anything you like, they can be used as a re-roll or to change the game itself with declarations.

It's the players job to roleplay and the GM's job to reward him when that roleplaying wouldn't normally benefit his character. The GM can also compel aspects to force a player in to an interesting situation.

You're right Stormraven, in that the first example might be a good chance to compel; but as wyvern pointed out further up, the compel would be to end up as the main target for all of the were-forms for being sneaky, or to make an enemy for life out of the were-bear. It wouldn't be a compel to hit the bear when it's blatantly something the player, not the character but the player, would want to do.

In the second example, you might well compel that situation but again it would guarantee a lot of trouble for the character. In the examples as read there was no significant trouble for the character either time.

[Stormraven]

But that's the point.  By granting those Fate points, the GM is basically saying 'okay, you get paid for what you wanted to do, but you also get the trouble that comes with it'.  It's not too late, even a session on, to bring the trouble from a compel into the game.

[CMEast]

That's exactly the point Stormraven, in the first example Hanna wasn't in trouble, in the second Hanna might be in trouble. The examples as written probably don't deserve fate points but if they were changed so that the compel resulted in serious problems for Hanna then they'd be worth Fate points.

Still, everyone is entitled to run their game how they choose

[YuriPup]

I am sorry, I have to disagree. Ending up in combat is by definition "in trouble".

If she wasn't conceivably going to be attacked and threw herself into combat, that works.

[ryanroyce]

That's exactly the point Stormraven, in the first example Hanna wasn't in trouble, in the second Hanna might be in trouble. The examples as written probably don't deserve fate points but if they were changed so that the compel resulted in serious problems for Hanna then they'd be worth Fate points.

Still, everyone is entitled to run their game how they choose

 The thing is, a compel should only buy a character a certain amount of trouble.  Too much trouble and they're no longer worth the bother.

 That said, this all boils down to one fundamental question: "How often do you want your players to invoke their Aspects?"  The correct balance between stingy and generous will depend entirely on how you (and the rest of the table, for that matter) answer that question.

[CMEast]

I am sorry, I have to disagree. Ending up in combat is by definition "in trouble".

If she wasn't conceivably going to be attacked and threw herself into combat, that works.

After a few words, one of the shifter's, a big grizzly decides he's had enough of the small talk and charges Agent Blair.

He's not charging Agent Blair to give him a big hug, the conflict had already become physical, if anything Hanna was ending it with a pre-emptive strike. Still at the end of the day, it's down to the GM how to handle compels and as neither of us are GMing the other person, our own opinions are pretty irrelevant.

[Barrington]

I think it all comes down to the player behind Hanna, and the reasoning for the aspects that were chosen. Good aspects are such fundamental parts of the character that sometimes a player won't even realize they're being compelled by them. My character, a Champion of God-ish (Custom template) fist-fighter, has received several fate points without me as the player even thinking about it. I just played the character as I had envisioned him and the points came naturally. So in that case, I'd say give Hanna a point for each of the aspects. Good character play should always be rewarded, in my opinion, as this game is so much more about role playing than it is about working the point system to get powerful.

On the other hand, sometimes aspects are chosen because players think they will give their characters lots of fate points, and were then shoehorned into the character build. If that be the case, don't give out fate points freely, because the person is just powergaming and isn't following the spirit of the game rules. This only applies to people that didnt' find a good way to change the character so that their chosen power aspect still fits properly.

[luminos]

I think it all comes down to the player behind Hanna, and the reasoning for the aspects that were chosen. Good aspects are such fundamental parts of the character that sometimes a player won't even realize they're being compelled by them. My character, a Champion of God-ish (Custom template) fist-fighter, has received several fate points without me as the player even thinking about it. I just played the character as I had envisioned him and the points came naturally. So in that case, I'd say give Hanna a point for each of the aspects. Good character play should always be rewarded, in my opinion, as this game is so much more about role playing than it is about working the point system to get powerful.
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Playing in character is not compel worthy, in and of itself.  Like CMEast earlier said, you don't get fate points every time you hit something with a hammer if you have the aspect "I like to hit things with my hammer".  If you are using an aspect in a way that disadvantages you, its a compel.  If you are using an aspect so that it helps you, it can an invoke which gives you a bonus, and you lose a fate point.  If you are just playing in character without actually increasing the risk, its just playing in character.  In the first example presented, it sounded like the player was making a tactical decision, that also happened to be in character.  The fact that it was in character was good, but not inherently compel worthy, because the fight sounded pretty unavoidable at that point.  It would have been a compel if the player had done something counter-tactical, like drop the veil without trying for an ambush to try to get the grizzly's attention, or just taking an unopposed hit.  The second situation was borderline, because if the player honestly believed that giving medical attention was a risk, it was a compel, otherwise it wasn't.

On the other hand, sometimes aspects are chosen because players think they will give their characters lots of fate points, and were then shoehorned into the character build. If that be the case, don't give out fate points freely, because the person is just powergaming and isn't following the spirit of the game rules. This only applies to people that didnt' find a good way to change the character so that their chosen power aspect still fits properly.

Powergaming the aspects in this system is good roleplay.  The type of aspects that make the characters more powerful are ones that are interesting, give a creative description of the character, and create very exploitable weaknesses for the character.  I believe one of the developer's said as much on this forum before. 

I think that giving out fate points based on who is playing the game 'right' is misguided.  This is very much a game, and as long as people are following the rules and having fun, they isn't a 'wrong' way to play it. 

[bcillustration]

Wow there are alot more replies here than when I was asking about how many fate points should be tossed around in a given session.

I am the GM of this campaign, and our first 3 sessions nobody got any fate points. ( All trying to get used to the system.)  I am personally having difficulty compelling the players, as I don't want to force them to any particular action, but I want them to have enough fate points to spend some if they want, so I figure self compels are an easy work around. ( And the book says go for it!)

I agree with most posters here, the initial example would not normally be given a fate point, the second would. Handed out the cookies anyways, just cause folks were short on em.

And you're all going to need them, very very soon 

[YuriPup]

Each fate point is the equivalent of unspent refresh. Fate points are the equivalent to two temporary skill points in anything you like, they can be used as a re-roll or to change the game itself with declarations.

Two important particular's here. Firstly a single fate is only good for a single skill roll. It is a fleeting bonus to skill, not even long enough to be temporary.

Additionally unspent refresh can be cashed in for more POWER. You fire only caster needs a spell to suddenly heal someone using spirit? Have more than 1 unspent refresh--go ahead and upgrade yourself from a single element caster to a full spectrum caster. No amount of fate points will let you do that.

One fresh does get you one fate point when fates refresh, but refresh points are cosmically more powerful.

[finnmckool]

I give Fate Points out like CANDY. I reiterate. Candy. It encourages them to use it more, they're powergamers who role play more now. They'll do in character stuff no matter what the cost to their character. If it's even mildly embarrassing, funny or damaging, I give'em points. And they spend'em! Left right and center they spend'em! It's a veritable fate point tornado.

I started doing this because we're all Star Wars D20 gamers mostly. And everyone was hoarding the things like Force Points (which are much rarer and much awesomer). And everyone was quiet and everyone was unsure what to do, and not being good at stuff. No longer.

So there ya go. For what it's worth.