A Compelling Question About Aspects

[KnightKD]

Our group is still trying to get our heads around Aspects, and compelling Aspects in particular. Since examples seem to work the best for me, I'm simply going to give you two from our last session and see what people's opinions are.

Example 1. Agent Blair is standing in front of a group of angry shifters. Beside him, veiled, is Hanna, with a big ol' Norse hammer. After a few words, one of the shifter's, a big grizzly decides he's had enough of the small talk and charges Agent Blair. Hanna's player goes for a self-compel at this point, compelling her "Got your Back" aspect and stepping in front of the bear and playing whackamole to his big, furry noggin. In the process, she gains herself a fate point.

Hanna could have stayed veiled and remained unseen, but chose to limit her options and protect her friend. On the other hand, the player would have probably taken this action anyway, just because Hanna wanted to hit something with her big 'ol hammer. Proper use of a compel, or not?

Example 2. Later in the scene, after laying waste to lots of Gruffs, the bear finally starts to come around (it was a good hit with the hammer). By this point the group realizes that the bear really isn't the enemy. Hanna feels bad for the bear due to her Trouble Aspect, Two-ton Conscience. Once more going for a self-compel, she goes to work trying to administer first aid to the big lug, despite the fact that he might be looking for payback. Once again, Hanna gets a Fate point for the self-compel.

Choosing to get down and personally help the grizzly was a risky move, but again, this is something Hanna probably would have done anyway, being a doctor and all. Did she deserve the fate point?

Opinions appreciated.

[Stormraven]

As I understand it from the book, yes.  Self-Compels are entirely appropriate ways to get Fate points.  You're being rewarded for playing in character, as it were.

[CMEast]

Example 1 - I'd say it's not a compel unless she takes the hit that would have hurt the other character, diving in front of the bear to save the Agent. Just hitting the Bear is fighting an enemy that they'd fight anyway, that's not a compel in my opinion.

Example 2 - If Hanna thought she'd be hit by the bear then I'd say yes that's a fair compel. In the same way, diving on a grenade is a massive self-compel even if it turns out to be a dud. If Hanna knew she wouldn't be attacked then it's not a compel, it's just being a doctor.

Others may see it differently though.

[wyvern]

My answer to both one and two are: maybe.  Specifically, the ruling I'm going with for my game is that a compel causes a noticeable complication or setback for the character.  Acting in accordance with your aspects when that doesn't get you into hot water (or at least uncomfortably warm water) is good play, but (imo) not generally worth fate points.

For example one - I probably wouldn't hand out a fate point by default - but if the player asked for one, I'd say "Sure!" - and then have the other shifters see this as an escalation of combat and pile in, or have the grizzly hold a grudge - something like "Being invisible was cheating!" or "I want a rematch!".  The tricky part here is to make sure that the results of the compel are a direct consequence of the aspect that's being compelled.  Another important factor is: what would have happen if she'd stayed veiled?  If the situation was such that staying out of it wasn't a viable option, then no fate point.

For example two, again, I wouldn't hand out a fate point by default - but if the player wanted to self-compel, why, then that grizzly is willing and eager to resume battle immediately, interpreting her actions as threats instead of trying to help.  ...On the other hand, if that's explicitly her trouble aspect, maybe I would've handed out a fate point (and made that grizzly hostile) by default.  Depends on the grizzly, really.

[luminos]

Playing in character should be a given.  It should only count as a compel (self or otherwise) if it really does make things more complicated/worse for the PC's.  For the first example, I wouldn't give that a fate point, but I might negotiate the compel to be something more dangerous, like Hanna taking the hit to protect Agent Blair, and giving a fate point for that.  For the second example, its a maybe.  If there was a real reason for the player to fear what the shifter might do, then the compel for the medical help would be appropriate.  If they still thought the bear shifter was a bad guy, it would definitely be a good compel.

[CMEast]

Wyvern's answer is better than mine. Pretend I said that instead.

[wyvern]

A random further thought: The bear in example two doesn't even need to be hostile for that to be worth a fate point.  I mean, imagine you're a were-grizzly; you value physical power and combat ability.  Some girl takes you out in one hit, and then actually stops and helps you get back up?  Picking up 1x amorous grizzly would definitely be worth a fate point of complication...

[black omega]

By the book it says "An aspect can also allow you to gain more fate points by bringing complications and troubling circumstances into the character's life."  YS p.100.  So I'd have to agree the first example would not be a compel, but the second one would.

[ryanroyce]

I think the compel-worthy part of the first example is that the character was veiled and otherwise not in any personal danger (as far as I can tell).

OTOH, I cut my teeth on 7th Sea and quickly learned that being stingy with Drama Dice/Bennies/Style Dice/Fate Points/etc results in players hoarding points instead of using them, which takes some of the fun out of such games, at least for me.

[DTFarstar]

The first example would be more worth a compel in my opinion if there was a reason for her to stay veiled other than just staying out of Grizzlies way. Also, the other examples here, but that is one I didn't notice. If she was low on health, or trying to stay hidden for some other reason, though really revealing your face to an something as dangerous as a were-grizzly should just be worth a compel IMO, if you have other options unless you are just a gung-ho combat character.

DTF

[YuriPup]

I would probably say yes to both, until I had a sense of how many FPs I was handing out and how many the PCs were using.

Taking an aspect that basically gives fate points for having a PC stamp still makes your life more complicated.

If you look at Harry's sheet he has "Chivalry isn't dead" which gets him into plenty of "PC" class trouble. If Hanna could have reasonably  stayed out of combat, then it's worth a point.

At least that is what I would do until have a sense if I am heading to too many or too few points.

[finnmckool]

I completely understand everyone's maybes.

I say yes to both. But at the moment, I'm all about encouraging the accruing and spending of fate points. The more you can enforce your players acting against their best metagame interests for fate points the better. It gets them used to the system. And you. And it makes for a more insane series of events, and creative problem creating on your part (see earlier comment about amorous werebear). So if I'M on the fence? I always lean towards "You Get a Cookie"

At least until it becomes a problem. Then I CLENCH THE FIST OF GM'ING AND THEY SHALL GO WANTING! MUAHAHAHAA..sorry.

[Stormraven]

That.  That is my reasoning entirely.  Fate points are the engine of the system, after all.  In both cases, the character wasn't required to do anything - she chose to, and acted in ways consonant with her Aspects.  That's good enough for me.

[CMEast]

If my character had an aspect 'I like to hit stuff with a big hammer', he shouldn't get a fate point every time he hits something with a hammer. He'd get a fate point if he tried to fix a computer with a hammer, or tried to disarm an unexploded bomb with a hammer, or tried to persuade the police that he was innocent with a hammer.

[Stormraven]

True enough.  However, I look at it like this - if I, as GM, would compel them for the situation, I'm willing to give them the fate point.

In the OP's first example, had the player chosen to remain veiled, I as GM might well have compelled the Aspect myself.  Thus, she gets a point.

In the second, given the situation of learning that the bear wasn't an enemy, I would almost definitely have compelled, if the player hadn't.  So, again, she gets a point.

I'm not saying that every self-compel gets points, I'm just saying that the situations presented above, in my opinion, merit points.