The Lightsaber Spell.. :o ::)

[finnmckool]

Look at it this way: I'm making a bowl. That holds fire. That's not strictly evocation. It "durates"

[John Galt]

You're severely weakening yourself for no reason. 

You're basically making a severely under powered enchanted item.  I don't understand why you don't take any of our suggestions, any of which would be more powerful and less rule breaking than what you've proposed.  I'm not even sure where you got 14 shifts of control though.  If you wanted a ritual that made a weapon4 that was active for an entire session, you'd need way more than 14 shifts of control.

[finnmckool]

Not a whole session..no. Okay. is this where I'm breaking down? I realize I'm probably not conveying this correctly. Maybe this is where I'm going awry. It's a lightsaber. Spell. you turn it off and on. You use it for an exchange or two. Maybe the whole fight. You don't carry it with you all the time, that's part of what makes it better than a sword. that and it's made of fire that's where I'm getting 14. As a construct it takes 2 to make a simple shape (it has to hold something, but it doesn't have to be anything more complicated than a cylinder. It takes some points equal to the shifts of fire you're pouring into it (and if I got that right 8 shifts gives you a Weapon 4...right?) So that's ten. You want it to hang around for more than one exhange...four shifts for construct duration.

Yeah, let me reiterate...I don't want the guy to have a LITERAL lightsaber, or a PHYSICAL sword. I want him to freeze a bar of fire...like the one Luccio shoots, and swing it like a bat. As a spell. I can live with tying it to some sort of physical focus so it's tethered to a "hilt" but it's really not a magic sword, or a fire blast. See? this is why I thought it more complicated than just an "evocation attack with fire." I'm looking for something that is both evocation/ritual, or between. Or something.

[GruffAndTumble]

"Frozen bar of fire" is a perfectly valid enchanted item. Beyond that, there is a section in the Thaumaturgy rules on page 275 called "Can I summon a Sword." Read it.

[finnmckool]

Yeah, no I have read it. But, as I've mentioned earlier...while I understand the over all point I take a few exceptions.

1) Real swords are illegal in the USofA to go carrying about one's person (as is any blade longer than what is it? 4 inches? 6?) And they're not exactly concealable. It's all fine and dandy when you're an NPC like Morgan or Luccio, or a Knight of the Cross with a trait like "Protection of Divine Coincidence." But GM's like to make things difficult on PC's. "Yes, that's a fine Bastard Sword and you like quite scary with it. So much so everyone's calling the cops."

2) Why magic up a sword instead of a real one? Because I've been caught and frisked! They took me weapons! Me shiny shiny weapons...

3) This one's ON FIRE. Which makes it inherently more awesome. And no real sword is.

4) This cuts through things, not blasts through them, so it's way less dangerous to the scenery and the by-standers

5) This one IS FIRE. Swords have to go in sheaths. This one can be blown out dramatically at the end of the fight. Plus it's fire. see 3 and 4.

6) Go on. Parry it. I dare you. Make a disarming maneuver...give it a go.

I'm just sayin...I can think of berjillion occasions when a construct sword is better than a real sword. Especially when said sword isn't so much a sword as a persistent, static bar of fire that I can swing in a sword like fashion.

Now I grant there are plenty of drawbacks. It can be dispelled. It can burn me just as easy. It takes some juice to make. Hit it with water the steam will cook me pretty good too. Plus it's not invulnerable. But it's not useless either. It does things no other ONE spell anyone's named so far can do, which is go away when I want it, be there when I need it, cut through walls (as opposed to blasting through them),  parry/block things, cut through things in general, and be a sword o' fire.

[GruffAndTumble]

Now I grant there are plenty of drawbacks. It can be dispelled. It can burn me just as easy. It takes some juice to make. Hit it with water the steam will cook me pretty good too. Plus it's not invulnerable. But it's not useless either. It does things no other ONE spell anyone's named so far can do, which is go away when I want it, be there when I need it, cut through walls (as opposed to blasting through them),  parry/block things, cut through things in general, and be a sword o' fire.

So, in other words, its exceedingly complicated and has no precedent in the system, or at least that's how you want it to be treated mechanically.

My advice is an Enchanted Item or Item of Power combined with an Aspect you can Invoke for special effects stuff. That, or do something that has a purpose other than "wow, cool!"

[finnmckool]

"So, in other words, its exceedingly complicated"-people seem to think so...that's why the discussion...is there no more elegant solution? why is mine bad?

"and has no precedent in the system,"-No...hence the question...But hey! It's a new system! This is half the fun!

"or at least that's how you want it to be treated mechanically."-No. I just want it to do and be something very specific.

"That, or do something that has a purpose other than "wow, cool!"-Yeah, no I have listed like 3 or 4 things that makes this thing REALLY useful, outside of pure numbers. I will reiterate. It is a bar of fire you hold in your hand. So let me spell (heh) that out a bit. You can use it to cut through things. Not BLAST through, thus possibly hitting things on the other side you can't see...cut through. If you've ever played a Jedi you know how really awesome that is. Solves a LOT of problems without the fall out of explosions or burning buildings. In a sword fight, it'd be well...difficult at best to parry this weapon since it would probably ruin any straight blade that came in contact with it for any period of time.

And again...it's FIRE. I hit you with it. You hurt bad. Maybe be on fire.  It's actually the best of several worlds.

And...no one can confiscate it. Unlike your sword.

Seriously...how is that not insanely useful? There's a reason lightsabers rock...and it's not just the hawt glowing blade or sexy noise it makes.

[Deadmanwalking]

You guys are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Just go with it as a Conjuration effect, conjuring a Weapon 3 sword or so. Probably held in an Enchanted Item so it can be done instantly. That's what I'd do. The fact that it's made out of fire is basically flavor, and will satisfy about as many Catches as a normal sword (ie: one made of Cold Iron).

It's about 4 or 5 shifts max, and very doable.

[finnmckool]

That sounds fairly elegant and much closer to what I want. My only nit-pick is being made of fire isn't mostly flavor since I want it be able to make doors for me, you know...where there were none before. But I imagine that'd just be adding more shifts to power?

[finnmckool]

Oh..and KoffeeKid...
AWESOME!!! Your "soul sword" is pretty close in lots of ways. I thought about that whole soulfire thing too, as a magic matrix. Apart from that...it's pretty wicked cool in general.

[Deadmanwalking]

That sounds fairly elegant and much closer to what I want. My only nit-pick is being made of fire isn't mostly flavor since I want it be able to make doors for me, you know...where there were none before. But I imagine that'd just be adding more shifts to power?

Sure, but it can't be used as a pry-bar very effectively. That's what I mean by flavor, it's somewhat different from what a normal sword can do, but not inherently better or worse per se.

[finnmckool]

Hah! No. Not supposed to be a prybar. It's a lightsaber, which makes it more of a cutting torch. But I think I catch your point...

[MWKilduff]

Yeah, no I have read it. But, as I've mentioned earlier...while I understand the over all point I take a few exceptions.

1) Real swords are illegal in the USofA to go carrying about one's person (as is any blade longer than what is it? 4 inches? 6?) And they're not exactly concealable. It's all fine and dandy when you're an NPC like Morgan or Luccio, or a Knight of the Cross with a trait like "Protection of Divine Coincidence." But GM's like to make things difficult on PC's. "Yes, that's a fine Bastard Sword and you like quite scary with it. So much so everyone's calling the cops."

2) Why magic up a sword instead of a real one? Because I've been caught and frisked! They took me weapons! Me shiny shiny weapons...

3) This one's ON FIRE. Which makes it inherently more awesome. And no real sword is.

4) This cuts through things, not blasts through them, so it's way less dangerous to the scenery and the by-standers

5) This one IS FIRE. Swords have to go in sheaths. This one can be blown out dramatically at the end of the fight. Plus it's fire. see 3 and 4.

6) Go on. Parry it. I dare you. Make a disarming maneuver...give it a go.

I'm just sayin...I can think of berjillion occasions when a construct sword is better than a real sword. Especially when said sword isn't so much a sword as a persistent, static bar of fire that I can swing in a sword like fashion.

Now I grant there are plenty of drawbacks. It can be dispelled. It can burn me just as easy. It takes some juice to make. Hit it with water the steam will cook me pretty good too. Plus it's not invulnerable. But it's not useless either. It does things no other ONE spell anyone's named so far can do, which is go away when I want it, be there when I need it, cut through walls (as opposed to blasting through them),  parry/block things, cut through things in general, and be a sword o' fire.

You can carry a sword in LA if you are 21male and own land.  Law on the books.  Problem solved enchanted sword and you play in New Orleans.

[finnmckool]

That's an awesome law!

[Deadmanwalking]

In Montana, you need a permit to carry blades over 4 inches, but as I understand it acquiring one isn't too big a deal. So it really depends on the specific laws where you are how illegal such a thing is.