Better to play in someone else's yard or get your own?

[Rechan]

While there is Fan Fiction out there, that's not what I want to talk about, but it relates.

Is it better to write in an established setting (The Dresdenverse, the Forgotten Realms, etc) - where the Rules and such are established - or is it better to create your own?

I'm contemplating writing some Urban Fantasy. But unless I, for instance, set it in the Dresdenverse, then all the rules need to be made up before I start working. Not just Magical, but the various Groups, and their politics. In essence I have to do a lot of worldbuilding before I get to the writing (because what I want to write about is tied very strongly to one of those world buidling elements).

Is there any time when playing in someone else's back yard (a pre-existing setting) is better than making your own? And, unless that setting is owned by a company (Forgotten Realms for instance), can you even get away with publishing it?

[arcanist]

if you want to write in anyone elses worlds with intent to publish you'll need their publishers permission. probably the authors as well. and the likelyhood of that happening is small.

[belial.1980]

if you want to write in anyone elses worlds with intent to publish you'll need their publishers permission. probably the authors as well. and the likelyhood of that happening is small.

Exactly.

In essence I have to do a lot of worldbuilding before I get to the writing

So this doesn't appeal to you? Why not just start writing? Make things up as you go along. Of course your first draft will be a mess, but first drafts almost always are. Then go back take the cool parts you came up with along the way and polish them. Not every novel is planned from the ground up. Many writers start with very little planning to begin with. If you just start writing the story you feel, you may surprise yourself and come up with cool ideas just shooting from the hip. When it's time for revisions discard the stuff that didn't work.

There's always going to be a little bit of world building involved but you don't have to sit there and plan out every aspect of your world before you start writing. Consider writing something about as detailed as your average Wikipedia article for some of the major points of your world. Probably best not to get into too much detail anyway since you'll likely find things need to be changed along the way. Some people get so deep into world building that they never get to writing. Just don't let that happen! Good luck, whatever route you decide to go.

[Rechan]

The other part of "Doing it your own way" is dancing the fine line of coming up with something unique vs. something familiar, and not copying too heavily on someone else's creation. I mean, if you like the way one world does X, you still can't use it because that's someone else's. So now you must do it a different way. And your different way might be too close to someone else's.

I mean, if you don't deviate from someone's idea too much, then you might be plagarizing or at least too close for comfort. But if you go too far just to avoid that, you might end up losing the feel in the first place, or making something you don't Like.

[KevinEvans]

A shared universe is hard to manage. My wife and I have sold close to 190K words to the Grantville Gazette, a SFWA pro market. The 1632 story cycle is now over four million words of "paid for" fiction and making sure that every thing is conflict free, is a significant effort. It only works because the base setting is well defined, and the rules are comprehensive. This reduces the need for the primary author (Eric Flint) to check every last word, but it still keeps an editor and a six person editorial board busy maintaining continuity.

Other franchise story cycles, rarely allow "entry level writers" a chance, mostly such contracts go to more established writers.

In any case strict attention must be paid to the style sheets and submission guidelines.

Regards,
Kevin

[belial.1980]

The other part of "Doing it your own way" is dancing the fine line of coming up with something unique vs. something familiar, and not copying too heavily on someone else's creation. I mean, if you like the way one world does X, you still can't use it because that's someone else's. So now you must do it a different way. And your different way might be too close to someone else's.

I mean, if you don't deviate from someone's idea too much, then you might be plagarizing or at least too close for comfort. But if you go too far just to avoid that, you might end up losing the feel in the first place, or making something you don't Like.

Read, write, find what you like, make it your own. Easier said than done, of course. But who said this was an easy business? 

[Starbeam]

Other franchise story cycles, rarely allow "entry level writers" a chance, mostly such contracts go to more established writers.

I don't know how most publisher do it, but I know this is how the Star Wars books are done.  They approach the authors about writing in the world.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Is it better to write in an established setting (The Dresdenverse, the Forgotten Realms, etc) - where the Rules and such are established - or is it better to create your own?

Infinitely better to make up your own.

I'm contemplating writing some Urban Fantasy. But unless I, for instance, set it in the Dresdenverse, then all the rules need to be made up before I start working.

There is no reason why one can't write in a world that is very similar to someone else's if one has something to say that is in direct response to or dialogue with that work, though.

Is there any time when playing in someone else's back yard (a pre-existing setting) is better than making your own?

When the owners of the property in question offer you large quantities of cash to do so.

[LizW65]

Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would want to write in someone else's universe when it is infinitely more rewarding to create one's own characters and setting.  JMHO, of course, and I have heard some very convincing arguments to the contrary.*

Most involving the aforementioned large quantities of cash.

[Rechan]

Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would want to write in someone else's universe when it is infinitely more rewarding to create one's own characters and setting

CHARACTERS I agree with you.

But setting? I don't know. It's like using an established campaign setting vs. a homebrew one. There are benefits. There's a blueprint there to draw inspiration from, find holes to explore.

[Apocrypha]

The largest problem is that you use someone else's setting you're not really being true to yourself.  How creative are you playing with someone else's creation.

Your own world with your own rules allows you to basically play god.  Using someone else's setting can severely limit you.    I've been worldbuilding for a couple weeks now and honestly it really does come easily.

And as mentioned, you probably won't get published using someone else's world.  At best you'd be reduced to being considered fan fiction.....*ugh*

[Thrythlind]

for me, fan fiction serves several purposes:

a ) practice:  You can develop all sorts of skills in writing fan fiction and the existence of a pre-existing world relieves the burden of having to create one.  It lets you focus more on other skills: characterization, dialogue, foreshadowing, mood, plot, etc.  This was, and is, one of my main sources of for just sheer writing.

b ) development in isolation: you have a flicker of a concept and you want to figure it out more, but don't feel like just sitting down and brainstorming is enough.  So you take the concept to a pre-existing setting you are already familiar with and put it down there to see how it plays.  This is one of the reasons that most of my fanfictions involve the Ranma 1/2 cast, I'm so familiar with them that I can adapt their basic characters to any sort of story I want and can model reactions to a new element using them.

c ) readership research: fanfiction comes out in smaller segments than most other writing, which means it can come out quicker.  Fanfiction readers are very vocal about what they like and don't like.  The good ones are both vocal and explanatory.  Even better are the ones that start to speculate.  A careful study of comments gives you excellent insight into what sorts of constructs or plot devices produce what sort of reaction.

d ) sheer fun.  I have a hard time reading a book I enjoy or watching a good show without wondering how my characters would react or be treated in such a situation.  This is the reason my fanfiction is rarely as grammatically well done as my original fiction, because I'm often writing for fun not art.  The fact that it is not original leaves me kind of free to just do whatever I like.  Currently, for example, I'm wondering about how Michael would respond to one of my two "demonic" (well, they LOOK demonic) girls who also happen to be rather fervently devout Catholics (though one of them is also a bit like a female version of Warden Ramirez).  Also thought about Dresden meeting the main character of the novel I'm working on right now, but the metaphysical differences in play are huge, so I don't think I can arrange that in a way believable for me. (the first novel wouldn't show those differences, btw)

[trboturtle]

for me, fan fiction serves several purposes:

a ) practice:  You can develop all sorts of skills in writing fan fiction and the existence of a pre-existing world relieves the burden of having to create one.  It lets you focus more on other skills: characterization, dialogue, foreshadowing, mood, plot, etc.  This was, and is, one of my main sources of for just sheer writing.

b ) development in isolation: you have a flicker of a concept and you want to figure it out more, but don't feel like just sitting down and brainstorming is enough.  So you take the concept to a pre-existing setting you are already familiar with and put it down there to see how it plays.  This is one of the reasons that most of my fanfictions involve the Ranma 1/2 cast, I'm so familiar with them that I can adapt their basic characters to any sort of story I want and can model reactions to a new element using them.

c ) readership research: fanfiction comes out in smaller segments than most other writing, which means it can come out quicker.  Fanfiction readers are very vocal about what they like and don't like.  The good ones are both vocal and explanatory.  Even better are the ones that start to speculate.  A careful study of comments gives you excellent insight into what sorts of constructs or plot devices produce what sort of reaction.

d ) sheer fun.  I have a hard time reading a book I enjoy or watching a good show without wondering how my characters would react or be treated in such a situation.  This is the reason my fanfiction is rarely as grammatically well done as my original fiction, because I'm often writing for fun not art.  The fact that it is not original leaves me kind of free to just do whatever I like.  Currently, for example, I'm wondering about how Michael would respond to one of my two "demonic" (well, they LOOK demonic) girls who also happen to be rather fervently devout Catholics (though one of them is also a bit like a female version of Warden Ramirez).  Also thought about Dresden meeting the main character of the novel I'm working on right now, but the metaphysical differences in play are huge, so I don't think I can arrange that in a way believable for me. (the first novel wouldn't show those differences, btw)

All these are true. Fanfiction is a good place to start writing, as all the backgrounds and characters are laid out for you already. All I have to worry about is the story and the dialogue, taking the established characters and keep them true to the original while giving them my take on them. I add a few new characters of my own, and learn about the old and new interacting with each other.

I started in fanction, wrote a few, and now have moved to the next step -- Semi-pro writing in a shared universe (Battletech) While the characters are all my own, the background technology and basic sitiuations are already laid out for me. I don't have to create the universal backstory, just the backstory of the characters and the story. I'm leaning how the backstory influnces both the characters and story, what is necessary for the story and what isn't. I'm leaning how to write tight stories and making sure the scope is sufficent for the story.

After that? My own stories in the universes I create from whole cloth. I do have most of an original novel written. Its needs works and needs to be cleaned up, but it's all mine. It's the ultimate goal, but I'm not there yet. But I'm getting there.

Craig

[Kali]

Thrythlind's a) and d) reasons are the main reasons I write fanfic.  I used to be horrible at action sequences.  I could see them, but the writing of them was not being full of goodities.  So I used to sit down and practice writing them.  In order to give myself a sense of a complete world, I'd write them in fanfic.  I could've just started writing about two people in a fight, another couple in a gunfight, whatever, but they felt hollow without the whole world in place.  And since I wanted to focus, I didn't want to worldbuild to get it done.  Easiest solution:  fanfic.

And of course, there's the fun of it.  The Grace & Matt stories, to use my most recent fanfic, are just plain fun.  The first one took some plot wrangling, but even that was fun.  The hardest thing about the first one was making sure the timelines matched, and the second one doesn't have that problem, exactly.  I had fun nudging my style a bit to be more in line with Jim's voice, I had fun inventing characters who'd fit into the world seamlessly, without disrupting the flow of the canon world. 

The only other reason I write fanfic is to cover missed opportunities.  Every now and then, something I read or watch leaves a huge question mark in my head, and I itch to answer it.  Thus, fanfic.  Also covered under this is when an author takes a left turn and either does something I despise to the world they created, or just abandons it.  Wanting to get back to the world that was, I write fanfic for it until I'm over my mourning period.

Now, all that having been said, lemme get to the question.  Is it "better" to play in your own yard or someone else's?  That depends on why you're writing what you're writing.  If you want to publish, get your own yard.  No question.  If you just want to write, if you just want to create the stories and maybe post 'em online for ten or twenty people to read, go whichever way the wind blows you.  Fanfic can be fun, even if the story you're telling is serious.  Original stuff can be fun, too.  Feel free to do whatever gives you happy feelings on any particular day.

[Dom]

Better is relative to you, and what you're looking for.

There are many shared worlds that are successful--Batman, X-Men, most comics out there have teams of people working on them, and have had many writers writing in that world.  There are books spawned off of franchises that are quite successful by their sales numbers; World of Warcraft, Star Wars, Star Trek are three franchises that coem to mind.  There are a handful of writing duos who aren't part of the behemoth franchises who complete novels successfully as well.  And the majority of TV scripts and movie scripts have more than one author's hand in them.

Obviously, works by solo authors are popular too.  Jim Butcher, obviously, is one.  The novel market as a whole tends to lean towards "single" authors.  The reasons people become novelists over scriptwriters or ghostwriters or writers for a franchise are various...some people don't want to play by other's rules.  Some people aren't really "team players" and know it.  Some people see their stories and characters as their "babies" and have a hard time loaning them out to other people.

It's really up to you, and what you're interested in and what you're looking for.

One thing to keep in mind...the answer you will get about which is "better" will have a bias depending on where you ask the question.  This is a forum for fans of a novelist; most people will be biased towards writing in one's own worlds.  I am myself.  Doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of people out there that write in teams instead for franchises, and it doesn't mean that doing it one way or another is "better".