No vanillas with magic items?

[Archangel62]

This was a bit of a debate in our group, I just figured I'd bring it here to get some input. My friends and I are looking at starting soon and someone commented that they thought it was odd that you were no longer considered a vanilla mortal if you had a magical item. We sort of had two different schools of thought on this.

1) One group argued that because magical items had musts or requirements they essentially did sort of bind free will, not to mention that the two levels of 'free' refresh might represent a mortal with a magic sword or something similar to sort of duplicate their normal 2 extra refresh. This also prevents a 'vanilla' mortal from kitting themselves out with a ton of powers through magic items and abusing the rules.

2) The other side argues that the magic items we have examples of are ties to aspects, IE the sword of the cross for a knight of the cross. They also pointed out that picking up a magic item is different from forging a pact or learning magic.

I'm more with the former group myself, any thoughts are welcome, and would I be correct in guessing that the former is where the rules support?

[Deadmanwalking]

Look at the Hexenwulfen Belts, or the Swords of the Cross. Those are Items of Power. Those are what they do to your life: They alter it beyond all recognition. This may be good, bad, or some of each, but taking up such a thing on a permanent basis never leaves you quite the same afterwards.

[Morgan]

And Items of Power alter your life mechanically by taking your free will (Refresh), and in return they grant you power (Powers). Once your character spends Refresh on a Power including Items of Power they are no longer Vanilla Mortals.

I would say that if you borrowed an Item of Power you might be able to use it briefly and stay a Vanilla Mortal, but once you keep it for good you're going to need to spend some Refresh, and once you do you are no longer a Vanilla Mortal.

[toturi]

What happens when you give it up? You no longer have an Item of Power, but do you end up less than a pure mortal?

[CMEast]

They can be lent enchanted items for a while, but bear in mind that in this game items always 'charge up' instead of being permanently on. I guess if you don't have your own enchanted item slots they'll soon run out of juice, even if they are supposed to charge up with kinetic energy or similar.

I'd say if you fully relinquish an IoP then you get the refresh back.

[Deadmanwalking]

What happens when you give it up? You no longer have an Item of Power, but do you end up less than a pure mortal?

Like a Changeling who makes The Choice to become human, you'd gain/regain the Pure Mortal bonus as well as all other Refresh involved. This isn't explicit in the book, but it's explicit in the book's logic, and iago's said that's the way it works.

[Nomad]

If a magic-crafter lends a magical item to a pure mortal (like a protection charm or a potion or some such. Like Harry lending his duster to Murphy for example), mechanichally continuing to pay the refresh cost himself, then the mortal will still have his +2 mortal refresh. If the mortal took up the magical item to himself (Murph taking up and accepting to use the sword) then s/he no longer has the +2

[chrislackey]

What about a mortal character that goes a sort of magical James Bond and has a huge store of magical items, but only uses them as needed?  So he may own -30 worth of items, but doesn't use them all at once. Then as the need arises he picks and chooses the ones he needs for particular missions, never using more than say... -7 worth at a time.

Is that within the rules?

[luminos]

That way too much of a stretch.  Items of Power cost you refresh if you own them, regardless if you have them with you or not.  That is explicitly the reason they give you a +1 or +2 refresh bonus. 

[wyvern]

On the other hand, you could do that with modular powers.  You would *not* get the mortal refresh bonus, and you'd probably only get a +1 back from Item of Power (since with many varied options you could easily pick something that wasn't bulky and obvious).  So, for a submerged game, you could in theory get eight points of modular powers representing whichever items of power you have with you today.  In practice, you'd probably need to work out exactly which items you've got stored, why you can't carry all of them at once, and might want to have more than one fate point to spare and maybe some mortal stunts too, but the rules mechanics seem sound even if the character concept could use some further details / restrictions.

[edit] Though it's worth noting that the item of power listing suggests that GMs limit (or at least take a long, hard look at) what powers can be offered by such items - and modular powers is definitely not on the list of clearly ok stuff.  So don't be surprised if your GM says no to such a character; just because you *can* make something fit the game rules doesn't always mean it's an acceptable character. [/edit]

[Big Boss ODIN]

Here's a question... sorry to bandwagon, but it has to do with the topic.

My character is a vanilla mortal.  Would a force ring (like Harry's) be counted as an Item of Power, or more of an item?

Thoughts behind it are;  Spoiler ish

Ring would be activated by will, which through brief training anyone can do (look at Butters in Dead beat with a circle of will).  The charge would also be a once a session thing too (since the force rings gain a charge through movement).

Thoughts? Am I in the wrong here?  I have not gotten this item yet, but thoughts would be appreciated on the matter.

[luminos]

If you made the ring yourself, then you aren't a vanilla mortal, you are a minor practicioner.  If a magic user made the ring for you, then you can use it, but it takes up his item slots and the strength of the item will be lower than if it was only usable by him. 

[wyvern]

Hm.  That's really up to your GM.  If you go by the book rules, the only way this can happen is if you've got a spellcaster around who's willing to spend their own item slots on maintaining the thing and making sure its enchantments don't fade.

On the other hand, charging someone else for an item that only you are ever going to use strikes me as just a bit off, so I might be willing to let you buy Refinement for magic item slots yourself... but you'd lose at least part of the pure mortal bonus for doing that.  Talk it over with your gaming group and work out a solution that's right for you.  (Note: I say gaming group, not just GM; even if the GM is fine with just giving you the ring, for example, you don't want to end up with other people in the party feeling cheated that you're getting to bend the rules a bit.)

As an aside, unless there's something special about it that you don't know, it's definitely not an Item of Power.

[Big Boss ODIN]

Thanks for the help guys.

My character is more of a 'Kincaid' type; he is a pure mortal/muggle, but he has skill in the art of killing

I figured eventually, my character would see someone use a force ring, and I'd just be like, "Oooh! What's that, and how do I get one?"

But I'll talk it over with the group.  Thanks for the feed back. Cheers.

[CableRouter]

What about a mortal character that goes a sort of magical James Bond and has a huge store of magical items, but only uses them as needed?  So he may own -30 worth of items, but doesn't use them all at once. Then as the need arises he picks and chooses the ones he needs for particular missions, never using more than say... -7 worth at a time.

Is that within the rules?

That would be an absolute no per cannon.  Magic items run out of power if not kept charged, so you can't just keep piles of them lying around.  Making a caster and taking 7 levels of refinement would let you do it.  In another thread we've already taken a look at how strong a pure crafter could be in a game.  Take all your focus bonuses in crafting items, pop out 30 items with strength 8+ and with some thought put into it, you become a +8 Magic Item of "Do Whatever I Want as Much and as Often as I Want."  Especially if you spend a couple or three item slots for 4-6 potions (which you can leave undefined and during play declare the contents of them as you go with a Lore roll).