How would I stat Mother Teresa as a (literal) Ghoul of Calcutta?

[Emburii]

There are two different ways I can handle it if I want to keep the history of the real world figure; substitution of the human woman by a ghoul at some point, or possibly interbreeding with a human mother (her father was in politics, which if he were a ghoul would make the aphorism about laws and sausage even more appropriate).  Is that last point even possible, though, or can ghouls reproduce only with their own people?

[CMEast]

Well a Ghoul is already the scion of a human/uber-ghoul relationship (if you can call it that). As such, I would so that it's possible to have a ghoul/human half-breed (quarter-breed really).

(click to show/hide)

Of course, if you're talking about the real world figure rather than the myth that's been built up around her you could probably call her a ghoul even with a standard Pure Mortal template. Alternatively she could be a WCV from house Skavis?

[Remy Sinclair]

One of the most Holy People of the 20th Century a ghoul? The Living Saint she was called when she was alive a GHOUL?! Excuse me?! As a Ghoul there is no way she could have entered some of the Holiest Grounds in the world without being burnt to a crisp!? I am not just talking Christian Holy Places but Hindu as well. She also lived in a Convent and went to Church. She would not be able to do that with that design in the slightest.

There is no way Mother Theresa was a Ghoul! She was a True Believer dear God study the woman.

[Tush Hog]

One of the most Holy People of the 20th Century a ghoul? The Living Saint she was called when she was alive a GHOUL?! Excuse me?! As a Ghoul there is no way she could have entered some of the Holiest Grounds in the world without being burnt to a crisp!? I am not just talking Christian Holy Places but Hindu as well. She also lived in a Convent and went to Church. She would not be able to do that with that design in the slightest.

There is no way Mother Theresa was a Ghoul! She was a True Believer dear God study the woman.

I find it a bit strange, too. Unless you subscribe to Christopher Hitchens view of her

Of course, it is your game world Emburil. Do as you like! - but I just can't help you make Mother Teresa a ghoul - some things just don't feel right 

[Remy Sinclair]

Does not work in game mechanics of who she was.

[Bruce Coulson]

I agree that this is a real stretch, given the real world history of Mother Teresa.

On the other hand, this is a game where vampires, werewolves, wizards, and the Faerie Courts actually exist, so an insistence on reality may not be totally appropriate.

The only way I could see this happening and be believable (or allow a suspension of disbelief) is to have Mother Teresa as a ghoul of faith; a person who struggled her entire life against her inner nature...and won.

[DFJunkie]

Wait, do we even know that Ghouls are allergic to holy stuff?  It might make sense, given Harry's interactions with them, but remember that he tends to run into the mercenary ghouls hired by RCVs to kill him.  For all anyone really knows there are plenty of workaday Ghouls who just try to keep a roof over their heads and (fifty or sixty pounds of) food in their bellies.

That being said, how do you plan to use Mother Teresa?  Antagonist?  Ally?  Major power?

A side note to all those who are offended by the fact that Emburii is using a Christian figure in his made up RPG: don't contribute.  There are people who really do believe in Hecate, Zeus, Odin, and all the other mythological figures we mine for game ideas on a daily basis.  If they can be understanding, so can those of us who think highly of Mother Teresa.

[Emburii]

Well a Ghoul is already the scion of a human/uber-ghoul relationship (if you can call it that). As such, I would so that it's possible to have a ghoul/human half-breed (quarter-breed really).

(click to show/hide)

Of course, if you're talking about the real world figure rather than the myth that's been built up around her you could probably call her a ghoul even with a standard Pure Mortal template. Alternatively she could be a WCV from house Skavis?

That was my thought on it, since humans and ghouls were obviously compatible at one point.  It could still hold true, and would also explain how such an entity could keep their consumption of human flesh down to a concealable limit (not a full ghoul, not a full apetite).

One of the most Holy People of the 20th Century a ghoul? The Living Saint she was called when she was alive a GHOUL?! Excuse me?! As a Ghoul there is no way she could have entered some of the Holiest Grounds in the world without being burnt to a crisp!? I am not just talking Christian Holy Places but Hindu as well. She also lived in a Convent and went to Church. She would not be able to do that with that design in the slightest.

There is no way Mother Theresa was a Ghoul! She was a True Believer dear God study the woman.

As DFJunkie points out, there is no proof ghouls are allergic to holy stuff.  I cannot remember any such proof anywhere in the series, though I could be wrong and would welcome page references.  And as for studying her...I have.  I'd be happy to get into that debate with you, if extended riffs involving religion weren't against the rules of the forum.  Suffice it to say that I have come to very different conclusions.
(And as for True Believer, I can argue that, too; read what some of her personal letters, preserved after her death, contain.)

DF Junkie, I was thinking of using her as a mix of Major Power and Antagonist.  I liked the crossover between the Catholic Church and the Sabbat in the Old World of Darkness Material, and I was thinking that this could be very fertile ground for a variety of reasons; the emotions, the imagery...my main allies are actually intended to be the poor most mistreated by those in power, the ones who actually need the help and yet never actually receive the resources and money supposedly earmarked for them.  'Prayer of the Refugee' by Rise Against is some of my inspiration there.

[CMEast]

It does state that their catch is wounds from holy objects, however it is specifically wounds whereas things like demons have the catch 'holy items and expressions of true faith'. It's quite possible that ghouls feel uncomfortable around holy objects or in holy places but they wouldn't get hurt. Besides, Mother Teresa was infamous for believing that pain brought people closer to god.

Well, infamous to some, not others. You should be careful to check with the players in your group to see if it's ok. For those that are unhappy with this thread, you should possibly check out some of the documentaries on her, especially the Christopher Hitchens one. You'll find it on youtube pretty easily, I'd post a link but I don't want this to be a debate on her here.

[Emburii]

In the Dresdenverse, she coul very well consider the discomfort a gift to Christ (I'm stil going to handle her as fairly devout, or at least attempting to be so).  If I go with the idea that her mother was a human and passed on some limited immunity, even that discomfort might be minimized.

Most of them should be all right, though I'll check first anyway. 

[Sh33p]

...why not combine Ghoul with True Believer?

Not like we haven't seen crazier things 'round these parts. She was just trying to walk the straight and narrow (within limits) and eventually fell off the bandwagon.

[chrislackey]

Boy, I just read some of the criticisms of Mother Teresa from Hitchens and I gotta say I'm surprised. Again, don't want to make this thread about religious debate.

As for the Ghoul idea... having an endless supply of dying people would be pretty helpful for a ghoul. And if you want to go really dark with it, Christianity loves it's cannibalism! Catholics (as a church) believe in transubstantiation. That the bread and wine actually becomes the blood and body of Christ! I was brought up with that being just fine, but now when I think about it, it's a very bizarre (and kinda gross) ritual.

I could totally see a religious Ghoul perverting that into a justification for cannibalism. A very interesting idea!

[CMEast]

As for the Ghoul idea... having an endless supply of dying people would be pretty helpful for a ghoul. And if you want to go really dark with it, Christianity loves it's cannibalism! Catholics (as a church) believe in transubstantiation. That the bread and wine actually becomes the blood and body of Christ! I was brought up with that being just fine, but now when I think about it, it's a very bizarre (and kinda gross) ritual.

I could totally see a religious Ghoul perverting that into a justification for cannibalism. A very interesting idea!

"whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me" - I've paraphrased the quote as I can't be bothered to look it up right now, but that makes sense. If god is in everyone and if she wants to be closer to god, soylent green might make sense to her

[Emburii]

Chrislackey, wanting that endless supply of food would also cast new light onto objections to any sort of contraception from such a figure. 

CMEast...I like your choice of pronouns. 

I have to read up on the mechanics of the Dresdenverse a bit more.  Crunch has generally been one of my weak points, hence the asking for stat help here, but the GM likes this idea and has me signed up for two stories and I'll have to learn.

[Remy Sinclair]

That was my thought on it, since humans and ghouls were obviously compatible at one point.  It could still hold true, and would also explain how such an entity could keep their consumption of human flesh down to a concealable limit (not a full ghoul, not a full apetite).

As DFJunkie points out, there is no proof ghouls are allergic to holy stuff.  I cannot remember any such proof anywhere in the series, though I could be wrong and would welcome page references.  And as for studying her...I have.  I'd be happy to get into that debate with you, if extended riffs involving religion weren't against the rules of the forum.  Suffice it to say that I have come to very different conclusions.
(And as for True Believer, I can argue that, too; read what some of her personal letters, preserved after her death, contain.)

DF Junkie, I was thinking of using her as a mix of Major Power and Antagonist.  I liked the crossover between the Catholic Church and the Sabbat in the Old World of Darkness Material, and I was thinking that this could be very fertile ground for a variety of reasons; the emotions, the imagery...my main allies are actually intended to be the poor most mistreated by those in power, the ones who actually need the help and yet never actually receive the resources and money supposedly earmarked for them.  'Prayer of the Refugee' by Rise Against is some of my inspiration there.

Really? Since when has a Ghoul been able to enter the Catholic Church in Dresden Book or am I reading a completely different series? Wait I am not. You are.

Dresden hides in the church and his allies to keep away from the evil and bad stuff like ghouls. Hell no proof? Read the series.