Custom Power List

[Sanctaphrax]

I wouldn't rate my opinion that highly. I've made my share of mistakes.

[narphoenix]

I wouldn't rate my opinion that highly. I've made my share of mistakes.

Yes, but you've managed to hit the mark well enough a lot of the time that you're basically the unofficial authority at this point.

[bobjob]

Yes, but you've managed to hit the mark well enough a lot of the time that you're basically the unofficial authority at this point.

I consider Sancta to be an authority on the mechanics of custom powers. Granted, it's me putting the weight into that authority, even when he's shot down some of my ideas. The responses are reasoned and thought out (which is more than I can say for some of my ideas )

[Sanctaphrax]

Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence. But please, don't be afraid to disagree with me.

[narphoenix]

Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence. But please, don't be afraid to disagree with me.

We're not /afraid/ to, it's just that we generally don't have /reason/ to.

[Sanctaphrax]

Bigfoot discussion got me thinking about stealth Powers. So here's one. It's a bit sketchy and grab-bag-ish, and I'd hesitate to let a player use it, but there are some ideas I like in here.

SUPERNATURAL STEALTH [-2]
Description: You are supernaturally stealthy. Seriously, what did you expect?
Skills Affected: Stealth.
Effects:
Imperceptible. Your Stealth is never penalized due to movement, cover, or environmental conditions. You may hide just as effectively while running through a bright hallway as while lurking in a shadowy corner.
Hard To See, Hard To Hit. You may use Stealth to defend against physical attacks. When dodging this way you may add Athletics bonuses from Speed Powers to your Stealth skill. However, you may not use Stealth bonuses from Cloak of Shadows or other similar abilities. Alertness modifies the relevant skills of characters who attack you while you are defending this way.
Perfectly Consistent. Instead of rolling to hide or sneak around, you may simply use your skill as though you'd rolled a 0.
Invisible Attacks [-1]. When you make a physical attack, your target's Alertness restricts whatever skill they use to defend.
Superior Supernatural Stealth [-1]. Add 2 to your Stealth skill when using it for skulking, hiding, and sneaking.

Comments are welcome, of course.

[bobjob]

Perfectly Consistent. Instead of rolling to hide or sneak around, you may simply use your skill as though you'd rolled a 0.

This is the only part I have a question about, and really it's only to make sure I understand it. Basically this says that you're always considered stealthed and if you choose to use this, you never have to roll. Correct?

[Hick Jr]

I love it and would use it immediately. It makes ninja-type characters a hell of a lot more viable. Given my whole "incorrigible minmaxer" thing, that probably says a lot about the power. It does seem balanced, though; Imperceptible is probably a [-0] power, the other two are basically stunts.

[Sanctaphrax]

This is the only part I have a question about, and really it's only to make sure I understand it. Basically this says that you're always considered stealthed and if you choose to use this, you never have to roll. Correct?

Not really. It just means you can choose not to roll if you're worried about blowing the roll.

I added that trapping because without it, it seems like you're eventually gonna roll -4 and get found out if you try stalking someone long-term.

It does seem balanced, though; Imperceptible is probably a [-0] power...

Absolutely not. It's all meaningful upside, that's not fair for 0. And Hard To See, Hard To Hit is probably too much for a stunt. But Perfectly Consistent seems a little weak for a stunt to me, so maybe it balances out.

Still, I'm glad you like the Power.

[gojj]

I added that trapping because without it, it seems like you're eventually gonna roll -4 and get found out if you try stalking someone long-term.

Isn't that the point of rolling though? I think being able to just use your stealth skill without rolling is a bit boring. Flubbing rolls is how things get interesting.

Hard To See, Hard To Hit. You may use Stealth to defend against physical attacks. When dodging this way you may add Athletics bonuses from Speed Powers to your Stealth skill. However, you may not use Stealth bonuses from Cloak of Shadows or other similar abilities. Alertness modifies the relevant skills of characters who attack you while you are defending this way.

I think this is where most of the balancing of the skill will take place. I'm not fond of the Alertness modifier. Decreasing the attacker's roll by one adds too much defensive power to a stealth power. Increasing the attacker's roll just doesn't make sense to me. If they are alert enough to not be fooled by your Supernatural Stealth, than their attack should be regularly effective, not more effective. Also, after a quick scan of OW, the only generic enemies that have an Alertness equal to or higher than their main attacking skill are Malks, Temple Dogs, Werewolves, and Lycanthropes. This modifier will be decreasing the incoming attack much, much more than it will be increasing or doing nothing to the incoming attack. Instead, I would suggest allowing the user to use this power against all targeted attacks (i.e non spray or zone attacks). I think it would be just as hard to hit Predator with a sword as it would be to shoot him with a fireball. What do you think?

Other than that I think the power is at the very least balanced-ish, opens the door for sneaky scions or Emissary's who don't want to take Channeling: Spirit of Glamours.

[Sanctaphrax]

Isn't that the point of rolling though? I think being able to just use your stealth skill without rolling is a bit boring. Flubbing rolls is how things get interesting.

Well, the other guy is still rolling. But when it comes to Stealth, consistency is key. So I figured dropping the random element from 8dF to 4dF might be a nice extra for a dedicated sneaky character.

I think this is where most of the balancing of the skill will take place. I'm not fond of the Alertness modifier. Decreasing the attacker's roll by one adds too much defensive power to a stealth power. Increasing the attacker's roll just doesn't make sense to me. If they are alert enough to not be fooled by your Supernatural Stealth, than their attack should be regularly effective, not more effective. Also, after a quick scan of OW, the only generic enemies that have an Alertness equal to or higher than their main attacking skill are Malks, Temple Dogs, Werewolves, and Lycanthropes. This modifier will be decreasing the incoming attack much, much more than it will be increasing or doing nothing to the incoming attack. Instead, I would suggest allowing the user to use this power against all targeted attacks (i.e non spray or zone attacks). I think it would be just as hard to hit Predator with a sword as it would be to shoot him with a fireball. What do you think?

I wasn't sure about whether to include the Alertness modifier. I am aware that it's usually an effective +1 to dodge rolls...it'll rarely backfire. But I wanted Alertness to matter when you attack someone whose defence is Stealth-based, and making the actual attacks Alertness-based was definitely too much.

I dunno about making area attacks into a Catch of sorts. It would make sense to and it would also make sense not to. So I guess I could go either way.

But when I make a character, I generally want their defence against physical attacks to be at least okay no matter what they're confronted with. I feel vaguely unsafe otherwise. So I'm reluctant to deprive people of their primary defence skill.

So yeah, I'm filled with indecision.

Other than that I think the power is at the very least balanced-ish, opens the door for sneaky scions or Emissary's who don't want to take Channeling: Spirit of Glamours.

Glad you think so. That's what I intended for it.

[gojj]

Well, the other guy is still rolling. But when it comes to Stealth, consistency is key. So I figured dropping the random element from 8dF to 4dF might be a nice extra for a dedicated sneaky character.

Hmmm, my mind immediately goes to the scenario where a player with Superb Stealth picks of Supernatural Stealth, adds Superior Stealth, and tops it off with Cloak of Shadows. Suddenly there is a player who can sit at 9 shifts of stealth. An NPC would have to have an effective Alertness of 7 to have an honest chance of even detecting the player. How about the player can either roll their stealth, or simply use their skill at -1. This creates a more interesting decision. Do I get a sure fire -1, or do I chance flubbing the role and giving myself away?

[Sanctaphrax]

Yeah, that is a bit much.

Thinking about it a bit more, Superior Supernatural Stealth is just pointless numerical inflation. I'll get rid of it.

What would you think of a trapping that makes a -2, -3, or -4 roll count as a -1? It'd rarely be as good as or better than a simple +2, but it'd make the character a fair bit more consistent.

[gojj]

I like that more, how about this?

SUPERNATURAL STEALTH [-2]
Description: You are supernaturally stealthy. Seriously, what did you expect?
Skills Affected: Stealth.
Effects:
Imperceptible. Your Stealth is never penalized due to movement, cover, or environmental conditions. You may hide just as effectively while running through a bright hallway as while lurking in a shadowy corner.
Hard To See, Hard To Hit. You may use Stealth to defend against physical attacks. When dodging this way you may add Athletics bonuses from Speed Powers to your Stealth skill. However, you may not use Stealth bonuses from Cloak of Shadows or other similar abilities.
Perfectly Consistent. When rolling stealth for hiding, skulking, or sneaking, you cannot roll below a -2(-1?).
Invisible Attacks [-1]. When you make a physical attack, your Stealth supplements any attack you make.
Superior Supernatural Stealth [-1]. When rolling stealth for hiding, skulking, or sneaking, you cannot roll below a 0(+1?).

I'm not a fan of the alertness modifier on Hard To See, but I don't think it is game breaking by any means. I liked your idea of limiting how bad a person could roll. Superior Supernatural Stealth could increase the floor boundary instead of adding a flat bonus. I also changed Invisible attacks. Before someone could have Stealth and Fists at 5, and their opponents would almost always suffer a -1 to defend, essentially resulting in Fist attacks starting at 6. Having Stealth supplement attacks encourages people to have Fist and/or Weapons start at 4 or lower. This is minor but I think Stealth Powers should affect combat more indirectly than Strength/Speed/Toughness powers. Thoughts?

[Sanctaphrax]

Superior Supernatural Stealth could increase the floor boundary instead of adding a flat bonus.

Not a bad idea. I think starting the floor at -2 makes the trapping too weak, though. A roll of -3 or lower only shows up five times in eighty-one rolls on average.

I also changed Invisible attacks. Before someone could have Stealth and Fists at 5, and their opponents would almost always suffer a -1 to defend, essentially resulting in Fist attacks starting at 6. Having Stealth supplement attacks encourages people to have Fist and/or Weapons start at 4 or lower. This is minor but I think Stealth Powers should affect combat more indirectly than Strength/Speed/Toughness powers. Thoughts?

This I'm not such a fan of.

The way I had the trapping before, it was a situational +1 against a large fraction of enemies. (Not everyone has Alertness lower than their defence skill, but most monsters do.) Now it's a universal +1 against everyone. That's a lot less interesting in play, and it doesn't make the target's Alertness meaningful the way I wanted it to.