Various power balance questions (Previously -refresh for skills)

[Deadmanwalking]

Barodahn:

Hyper Speed seems really unwieldy...bonuses to hit that don't help with damage just aren't part of the system.

And you should go with whichever version of the guy seems most reasonable.



wyvern:

That's just not how it works. All Powers in OW are completely canon as acceptable powers. The stat blocks are speculative and debatable (like Kumori's lack of Lawbreaker, which is actually just a minor error on Evil Hat's part), but the Powers and Stunts were all designed by the exact same people who wrote up those in the core book and are every bit as canonical.

But even leaving that aside, check out Inhuman Strength:

+2 damage. Flat, stacks with other effects. Worth two or three Stunts right there. Call it 2 1/2. Actually, more like 5 since it applies to all Weapons and Fists attacks.
+3 to Might for lifting. Very explicitly 1 1/2 Stunts.
+1 to Might for Grappling. 1 Stunt.
Might always adds to other skills. Not really a Stunt effect, but call it 1 1/2 Stunts based on it being better than Supreme Concentration.

That's 9 Stunts of stuff for -2 Refresh.

Now assuming two Stunts to shift an entire Dodge trapping (sounds about right), A Few Seconds Ahead is worth 4. Or less than half as many. Now, Inhuman Strength is indisputably one of the better -2 Refresh powers, and A Few Seconds Ahead indisputably a very good -1 Refresh power...but not outside the realm of what's allowed.

Now, the list of skills Wide Experience can grant is basically as follows: Conviction, Deceit, Discipline, Empathy, Intimidation, Investigation, Lore, Performance, Presence, Rapport, Survival.

Now, of those, barring Rapport, none have more than 5 Trappings (and usually, transferring a Trapping is one Stunt), and most 4 or less, so adding them is indisputably not too bad. The four best are Discipline (wich at three trappings, one a Dodge trapping, is worth 4), Deceit (5 Trappings), Empathy (4 Trappings, one a Dodge trapping, so effectively 5), and Rapport (5 Trappings, one Dodge Trapping, so effectively 6). Now those would be potentially unbalancing, looking at them...which is where that -1 comes in as a very nice balancing factor.

[wyvern]

For comparison, inhuman speed calculates out to roughly six stunts, and the defensive powers (toughness/recovery) work out to about four to six stunts each.  As A Few Seconds Ahead is a defensive power, I'd be inclined to compare it to other defensive powers first.

I also disagree with your assertion that OW Powers are inherently canon / acceptable as written under all circumstances; if everything in there had been subjected to enough attention to make sure that all powers were balanced, it would have been subjected to enough attention to catch minor errors.  Further, you're not supposed to need OW just to run the game, so I see no reason to regard powers that only appear there as part of the core game that I'd need to feel at all guilty about disallowing from player use.

I suspect, though, that this is something we're just not going to agree on; my opinion on that particular power is based primarily off what it lets you do with character stats, not its numerical stunt equivalency.

Consider a wizard with +5 discipline and lore and A Few Seconds Ahead - suddenly you've got a character with effectively maximum values for magical attacks, all forms of defense, and thaumaturgy.  How do you provide appropriate opposition for such a PC?  Anything that can scratch them (in *any* form of combat) is going to walk all over other PCs that will have weaknesses in their defenses - everyone else will have at least one realm of attack where they've got only +3 for defense - and that's assuming they stack their skills to focus purely on defense.
And that's the logical character build to make if you have access to A Few Seconds Ahead; it doesn't even require deliberate munchkinry, just the existence of the power.  That's why I don't like the power; it makes it far too easy to accidentally build a character whose only weakness is that they've probably got a low athletics and will have to resort to thaumaturgy if something decides to run away from them.

[Barodahn]

On the issues of a few seconds a head you have to look at the downside, she has an aspect that can be comprelled willynilly by the GM whenever, that will/should probably take her out of the action, she has seizures/epilepsy! (i forget which right now)

On the hyperspeed, i did sorta model it after reposte, (not getting the +2 from a full defense roll to the attack).  But it does feel unqieldy, if i ever decide to use this idea/concept i might just do something like +1 to attack, +1 to defense for weapons or fists if you have higher athletics, do you think that should have a fate point/stress consequence or it is weak enough that way?

[Deadmanwalking]

For comparison, inhuman speed calculates out to roughly six stunts, and the defensive powers (toughness/recovery) work out to about four to six stunts each.  As A Few Seconds Ahead is a defensive power, I'd be inclined to compare it to other defensive powers first.

Inhuman Speed is indeed only 6...so? Whether the Stunt is actually offensive or defensive matters little. And it being 4 is actually rounding up, it's closer to three IMO.

I also disagree with your assertion that OW Powers are inherently canon / acceptable as written under all circumstances; if everything in there had been subjected to enough attention to make sure that all powers were balanced, it would have been subjected to enough attention to catch minor errors.  Further, you're not supposed to need OW just to run the game, so I see no reason to regard powers that only appear there as part of the core game that I'd need to feel at all guilty about disallowing from player use.

Uh...they did some last minute changes to Lawbreaker so Lawbreaker specifically is a bit hit or miss, and even then only Kumori is really wrong. Does one single mistake really invalidate a whole book?

I suspect, though, that this is something we're just not going to agree on; my opinion on that particular power is based primarily off what it lets you do with character stats, not its numerical stunt equivalency.

Ah. Well, I don't usually bother with worrying about that. There are a dozen different ways for things to be broken, with the only way to stop them being a good GM.

Additionally, this isn't really an argument abut A Few Seconds Ahead itself, it was a random example I used to make a point. Inhuman Strength works equally well.

Consider a wizard with +5 discipline and lore and A Few Seconds Ahead - suddenly you've got a character with effectively maximum values for magical attacks, all forms of defense, and thaumaturgy.  How do you provide appropriate opposition for such a PC?  Anything that can scratch them (in *any* form of combat) is going to walk all over other PCs that will have weaknesses in their defenses - everyone else will have at least one realm of attack where they've got only +3 for defense - and that's assuming they stack their skills to focus purely on defense.
And that's the logical character build to make if you have access to A Few Seconds Ahead; it doesn't even require deliberate munchkinry, just the existence of the power.  That's why I don't like the power; it makes it far too easy to accidentally build a character whose only weakness is that they've probably got a low athletics and will have to resort to thaumaturgy if something decides to run away from them.

Uh...I have a character right now with Weapons, True Strike, a Stunt to use it as defense against ranged attacks, and Discipline and Rapport 4. He's just about on par, and pretty damn dangerous, and I didn't intentionally focus on defense with him, he's just a swordsman with Sponsored Magic and a heck of a nice guy. Is he broken? He's a bit more expensive than the A Few Seconds Ahead guy, but hardly ridiculously so, and a dangerous guy.

You're really exaggerating how broken it is.