Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

huh? I didn't realize that one fiction genre had stircter rules than another.

Look at the Harlequin Romance guidelines for authors sometime.  Those things follow a strict formula down to what has to happen on which page.

This could get really technical too because species in the strict scientific definition is the lowest classification on the scale.

Not really; subspecies and varieties are recognised in some clades also. (Trust me, I wrestle with taxonomy as part of my dayjob.)

I'm not going to touch the correct usage of the word "race" with two Lech Walesas end-to-end, save to point out that Shakespeare uses it in The Tempest to mean one person;s family, ancestors and descendants.

[MoSeS]

Look at the Harlequin Romance guidelines for authors sometime.  Those things follow a strict formula down to what has to happen on which page.

Not really; subspecies and varieties are recognised in some clades also. (Trust me, I wrestle with taxonomy as part of my dayjob.)

I'm not going to touch the correct usage of the word "race" with two Lech Walesas end-to-end, save to point out that Shakespeare uses it in The Tempest to mean one person;s family, ancestors and descendants.

Well those guidelines are set by that publication company, it's not really the same as general set of rules for an entire genre, especially a genre about aliens, wizards, dragons, vampires, etc. There really aren't rules there, just good theories that fans will agree with.

And yeah I know subspecies etc etc. That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think. Besides I think different groups general recognize a different biological classification systems. Most I think now use the 9 tier system, but I believe some still use as low as a 6 tier system.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Well those guidelines are set by that publication company, it's not really the same as general set of rules for an entire genre, especially a genre about aliens, wizards, dragons, vampires, etc. There really aren't rules there, just good theories that fans will agree with.

Perhaps, but you will lose a lot of SF readers by presenting something as SF that fundamentally fails to make sense.

And yeah I know subspecies etc etc. That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think.

Oh, very much so. But if you can't split hairs as a professional taxonomist, when can you split them ?

Besides I think different groups general recognize a different biological classification systems. Most I think now use the 9 tier system, but I believe some still use as low as a 6 tier system.

To hold the NCBI taxonomic tree for eukaryotic life searchably in memory, as of a couple of months ago, takes a minimum of 27 tiers plus one sod of a lot of sideways thinking to get around the bits where different subclades use different structures.

[Nickeris86]

muahahahah i love this  

MoSeS, in the book series of Alien vs. Predator they actually do describe the mating habits of predators. Females are much larger, stronger and fiercer than males (the predator mane character actually reminisces about getting thrown across a room by his mate while doing the horizontal monster mash). males hunt in order to garner the attention of the best females, as far as i can remember there was no monogamy only the best hunters got to mate.

i already figured out how to make vampires work in one of my books its the aliens that are giving me difficulty. my main character as he progresses through the series garners the attentions of two alien women who are humanoid but not human looking by far (one's species evolved from plants and the other evolved from felines). its long and complicated on how he got in this situation so i won't go into it. however i wanted to have at least one of his alien relationships to result in offspring as part of the over all plot of the series. i know how both species breed i just am trying to find a realistic reason why they would get pregnant.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

however i wanted to have at least one of his alien relationships to result in offspring as part of the over all plot of the series. i know how both species breed i just am trying to find a realistic reason why they would get pregnant.

Massively advanced tech put to the service of getting a kid ?

[MoSeS]

Perhaps, but you will lose a lot of SF readers by presenting something as SF that fundamentally fails to make sense.

Exactly! that's why i said "theories that fans will agree with"

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Exactly! that's why i said "theories that fans will agree with"

But I'm not talking about "I like this", I am talking about "the logic of this holds".  These are different criteria.

[Thrythlind]

huh? I didn't realize that one fiction genre had stircter rules than another. Since it's all....... fictional.

Granted people have different opinions on how fictional ideas should function.

The best break down of science fiction vs fantasy that I've seen is:

Science Fiction is the fiction of what could happen

Fantasy is the fiction of what can't happen

Science Fiction tends to be speculative and try to stay within the bounds of science.

Fantasy tends to be metaphorical and tends to make its own bounds.

X-Men, Spider Man and Superman, for example, are largely Fantasy rather than sci-fi, even if the cloak their magic in psuedo-scientific babble and terms like mutants and aliens.

Batman and Iron Man, however, taken on their own are largely Science Fiction.  Though Iron-Man starts to cross the line with what his suit can do.

There is some bleed over, especially when you reach the level of technology that might as well be magic, but, for the most part that is the difference.

In a hard science-fiction, two separate species, even if built on the same basic theory of reproduction, would not be able to reproduce in most cases unless they are very closely related species. Now, this is not to say that hybridization is not more common than we think it is.  Snakes can successfully interbreed (a real potential concern given a flood of big constrictors that got released in Florida by a hurricane a few years back).  Bees have interbred (killer bees anyone?).  And not all of the liger and tion offspring are sterile.  Still, it is difficult.  Note that Spock in Star Trek was apparently produced with a great deal of help from Vulcan and Earth scientists.  (Next Generation got a bit looser with producing hybrids than the original series did).

By contrast, in a fantasy, interspecies romances will work if the author says they'll work.

For example, in most of my works, there's no difference in my eyes between the soul of a human and the soul of a demon.  Maybe it's the God-Forgives-Christian in me, but I tend to operate under the assumption a soul is a soul is a soul and that we're all essentially related through that one fact and that the workings of our bodies are merely the expressions of the assumptions and beliefs of that soul.

If a fantasy story has need of a hybrid character, then such a character exists and such a character is possible to exist.  The possibility fits the need of the story and you have a much easier time explaining it believably.

Now, what the mixed blood is a metaphor of, if anything, depends on the individual reader.  Meaning like that might be something the writer thinks he has a say in, but the meaning the writer sees is the meaning that makes sense to him or her given their own life experiences to that point.  A reader with a different set of experiences gains a widely different view on the matter

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

In a hard science-fiction, two separate species, even if built on the same basic theory of reproduction, would not be able to reproduce in most cases unless they are very closely related species.

Seriously, the whole notion of "species" is a pre-Darwinian holdover; the closer you look at it, the fuzzier the edges get.

[Thrythlind]

Seriously, the whole notion of "species" is a pre-Darwinian holdover; the closer you look at it, the fuzzier the edges get.

there is a breaking point of definite difference though...especially when do things like count the chromosomes of a DNA strand and compare with another species of similar build and find that they're different

[MoSeS]

But I'm not talking about "I like this", I am talking about "the logic of this holds".  These are different criteria.

I concede, good point.

Science Fiction is the fiction of what could happen

Fantasy is the fiction of what can't happen

I see now, very good explanation.

@Nickeris86
I heard the AVP books were amazing, and the newest Predators adaptation by Trouble Maker studios is trying to go back to the roots of the first two movies, and get away from the AVP adaptations.

With that said, I tend to find the Intergalctic breeding of most Sci-Fi to be less believable than breeding with Fantasy races such as Elves and Dwarves.

Because the later would be Earthling, I think the would be way more likely to produce offspring with a Human than a Nebari or Klingon or ET. Granted these are all bad examples since I don't think they have ever produced offspring in any of the fiction, but I can't think of any alien/human hybrid at the moment.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

there is a breaking point of definite difference though...especially when do things like count the chromosomes of a DNA strand

That phrase in a published book would be a fairly strong indication to me that the writer does not know molecular biology from a hole in the ground; it's on a par with the Northern English writer of Westerns who mentioned setting up a campfire overnight with coyotes circling in the sky overhead.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

With that said, I tend to find the Intergalctic breeding of most Sci-Fi to be less believable than breeding with Fantasy races such as Elves and Dwarves.

May I ask what SF you are actually reading here ?

[MoSeS]

May I ask what SF you are actually reading here ?

Actually I was just making a general statement toward any alien/human offspring, but at the moment I am having difficulty actually recalling any, but I am sure there has been, I just can't think of any.

I found a small list of alien children in film, but no human/alien hybrids, besides Species(title), and that's not like normal reproduction. I just know it's been done, it's driving me crazy.
http://www.explore-science-fiction-movies.com/alien-children.html#axzz0vBQCV3ni

*this is relavant

Can anyone recall any significant/popular alien-human children?

[Apocrypha]

Worf from Star Trek the Next Generation had his son with a half-human, half-Klingon woman.

Dianan Troi (also from STNG) was half human and half Betazoid.

My nephew watches a cartoon called Ben-10 that seems to focus on several characters who are half human and half alien.