Vote Denarian 2010

[nimrod_funk]

Had a semi original idea. Based on the "vote Cthulu why choose the lesser of two evils" & Dukelzah (msp?) 2054 for Shadowrun, and Vote Saxon from Doctor Who. Just to be fair.

I think the idea would unfold as such: Your senate district is up for re-election. A young well to do upstart rushes in challenging the opponent who suddenly has an "Accident" or dies of "natrual" causes but was perfectly too healthy. The new election candiate is squeeky clean and after he starts to gain popularity he becomes more and more popular. He's perfect. Perfect teeth, perfect hair, perfect suit, and everyone who knows him says what an upstanding guy he is. Except for his recent ex-girlfriend who's suddenly disappeared. She's the only one with the truth and the last guy to investigate his background was found dead from self inflicted wounds. A recent attempt was made on his life but the official story is that the bullet "missed". The ER technician working on the candiate has disappeared having being cited as having a drug abuse problem and has been fired from the hospital.

Kind of wondering what happened to Niccodemus and the coin and how much power they would have with the Senate moving to an eventual presidency. Maybe it was the Denarians who helped the Roman Empire fall? Who knows. But everyone likes an underdog. This could start out as a nice "missing" person story leading to all sorts of dark stuff and intrigue. Maybe the Denarians have a deal with the corrupt members of the Church for they're support in the "religious right" part or some kind of freaky partnership to control "evil". It wouldn't be the first time the church has made a creepy faustian deal. Besides some priests may be so dissolutioned they might volunteer to become monsters thinking they're faith will help them "elevate the angels" You get the idea.  Besides you may disagree that it couldn't happend and I say two words "David Duke".

[CMEast]

I like it. The missing girl's parents contact you to find her, perhaps she's even a relative of the groups?

It need not be a denarian though. Perhaps he's so 'perfect' because he has outsider help. The girlfriend was killed to fuel his rise to power, now he needs a small war dedicated to his otherworldy master so that it too can rise to power.

[Ophidimancer]

You could also have a lone Minor Talent with Psychometry and Cassandra's Tears keep seeing the disastrous consequences of the election of the pawn of the Denarians keep trying to warn people about him and finally resorts to an assassination attempt. 

[nimrod_funk]

I'm just throwing it out there as ideas's for GM's. You could modify it in any number of ways. Keep the suggestions coming. Sometimes an idea needs to be refined or broadened?

[Ophidimancer]

Oh, I love the idea, I just wanted to throw a Dead Zone reference in there. 

[Bruce Coulson]

It might be hard for a Denarian to slip past the inevitable scrutiny candidate receive.

A substitution, on the other hand, could easily be possible.  Perhaps the candidate was a former rsising star who hit skids, but now is making a remarkable come-back?  Most of his family and 'friends' are just happy to have them back, and ignore any inconsistencies.  And the PCs are contacted by someone close to the candidate who's just managed to avoid several near-fatal 'accidents' after questioning some of the iregularities.  A lot of the candidates' associates from his down-and -out days seem to be missing now...

Or, to be more classic, perhaps the candidate is a pure mortal.  But his campaign manager, on the other hand... (cue Karl Rove music).

I like this idea; it can be scaled to any group you might have.  The Dead Zone references were nice, too.

[nimrod_funk]

Niccodimus' coin might need a new holder? (:>) and alot of other coins are up for grabs.

Dead zone reference was good! Kudos!

One thing though with moral relativism and liberals he or she could be very interesting. The idea that there really is no good or evil but such things are just social constructs. That could be interesting look. We're not promoting evil we're just showing you the "other sides" point of view. I though JB's writing of Nicodimmus in Small Favor was absolutely awsome. I love the idea of how you chip away at the philosophy and slowly bring down the person chip by chip. The idea then moves that the end justifies the means ie Utilitarianism. The moral worth of the item is justified by the outcome not the means. (An idea that harry fights against leading to the end of changes.) After Utilitiariansim you get into colonialistics of manifest destiny and 'We are Right because we are strong' going deeper and deeper into the well. I don't want to turn this into an arugment on philosophy and ethics but just how a upstanding member of society can be slowly turned into a pawn of dark evil. I love the general urbanity of Nicco in how he interacts with folks leading to sadism. 

One thing that I unfortunately learned the hard way was that evil comes in ordinary mundane packages. People who often say, "He was such a nice boy, quiet but nice" when they find the remains of the murdered. (Happened with a friend's neighbor's son who did bad things.) For all intensive purposes Nicco is a very cultured person with expensive taste in clothing and style rather than the crazed homicidal mansonesue murderer. That's why I like the Denarians but it could be any powerfull influencable entity like an evil or dark Faerie, spirit, demon, or vampire. The Denarians though have a certain amount of style and clarity for destruction that I like. When they plan they plan big.


Just imagine how the players are going to deal with explaining that this senator is really a crazed monster thing when they attempt to "out" him or her.

[Bruce Coulson]

Okay, I'll avoid any political responses here...

A 'sponsored' candidate could certainly appear to be a cultured, generous, worth-while human being while espousing ideas that will ultimately lead to ruin.  And the ideas themselves might seem quite reasonable and innocent on the surface.

The problems for the PCs are many.  How do they investigate the candidate without arousing suspicion towards them?  How can they deal with the candidates legitamite supporters and sponsors?  If the candidate disappears some dark night, there WILL be unpleasant repercussions.  And if, by some clever idea, they reveal his true nature in public, what would be the ultimate fallout from that?  And what if his opponent really is an unpleasant, unlikeable type with ideas that will cause the PCs a great deal of trouble in the future if they're elected?

[FutureGameDesigner]

The only way Nic's coin will ever need a new holder is if Nic dies.  He and the Fallen in his coin are two peas in a pod, a match made in hell, anti-soul mates...they're absolutely perfect for each other, and 100% on the same page.  I'd even go so far as to say separation could potentially damage even the Fallen because they're so mixed together now.  In Nic's case, the Fallen didn't take over, they totally teamed up, all the way...they may as well be one mind now.  That said, Nic CAN die under the right circumstances, so if it works for your game go for it.

Of all the other Denarians, only Lasciel or perhaps Namshiel really have the brains and the temperament to pull off such a plan.  The others are either too stupid or too impulse-driven to manage it even with Nic's constant and direct management.  So if it were to happen at all, it would be one of those two.  As long as they pick the right host (like say a well-meaning but desperate activist sojourning in a third-world country in an attempt to better things) they won't need a cover story, and it'll make them even harder to find out...fewer clues to follow.  Especially in Lasciel's case, she'd have no trouble twisting the good intentions of such a desperate overachiever with her temptations.  Give it a year and odds are in favor that they'd be in full collusion with her even after they discover what the Denarians really are.  Tessa's band might try a stunt like that with an unqualified Denarian in a poorly chosen host, but that's not Tessa's style anyway.  She'd only do it for an opportunity to strap a bomb with weaponized anthrax to detonate during the first official debate...and that's stretching it.  Nic would never let any of his band BUT Lasciel handle such an operation.  In such a case, even discovering there's a problem is going to require a Herculean effort of investigation.

As for other groups such as outsiders...that's where the "checkered past" sort of thing comes in.  Outsiders and demons can really only get at those who are already on the wrong side of good and evil.  Most of those who're on the right side are still out of reach even at their most desperate and despairing simply because there's nothing to connect them to evil, not even common and idle knowledge.  So, anyone who gets a helping hand from outsiders or demons is going to have a murky background that needs to stay hidden.  Conceivably though, someone who went that route might very well be more dangerous than a host to Lasciel.  She's not the most powerful of Denarians, and some outsiders and demons make any single Denarian look like a toddler.  So the increased risk of discovery comes with a commensurate degree of potential.

Another interesting idea is perhaps a Lasciel-host Democrat running against an Outsider-backed Republican...or even vice-versa.  The results could be VERY amusing indeed.  And most importantly, which one do you try to stop first?  Do you even have the time or capability to stop both?  What happens if you do stop both and some piddly mortal replacements make an even bigger mess of the political landscape?  Oh yeah...I'm diggin' that idea hard...

[nimrod_funk]

Don't forget that the process for grabbing a coin takes a while and isn't overnight. You don't just take the coin and become a slobbering monster. It takes time. Also there's alot about the Denarians we don't know. Disease is only one of thousands of vectors to cause problems and chaos. The Denarians like Chaos. Chaos brings anarchy, disease, starvation, death, and dissolutionment. I think beings that are thousands if not billions of years old could pull off quite alot. I don't think Las is the only one who could pull it off. She was chosen for a specific host. Never limit yourself if there isn't alot of information out there on the Denarians. It's a very open and very wide prospect.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[FutureGameDesigner]

Don't forget that the process for grabbing a coin takes a while and isn't overnight. You don't just take the coin and become a slobbering monster. It takes time. Also there's alot about the Denarians we don't know. Disease is only one of thousands of vectors to cause problems and chaos. The Denarians like Chaos. Chaos brings anarchy, disease, starvation, death, and dissolutionment. I think beings that are thousands if not billions of years old could pull off quite alot. I don't think Las is the only one who could pull it off. She was chosen for a specific host. Never limit yourself if there isn't alot of information out there on the Denarians. It's a very open and very wide prospect.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Most Denarian hosts are slaves to the Fallen who inhabit them.  They're tricked one way or another into offering up their free will to let the Fallen do what the host believes it can't do, and the Fallen never gives control back...that's the trap.  Only a host truly in league with their Fallen could ever accomplish such a deception successfully, and most Denarians are simply too brutal and too impatient to ever bond so mutually with any kind of host.

Absolutely NONE of Tessa's band could ever do it, period.  And only a tiny few of Nic's band might be able to do it, if he's constantly by their side keeping them on a metaphorical leash.

Nic and Laciel are the only really subtle ones besides maybe Namshiel.  The rest are all angelic sledgehammers...no matter who their host is.

[Piotr1600]

(cue Karl Rove music).

Eeek!  Where Oh WHERE can I get some of this? 

[nimrod_funk]

I don't see it as being so cut and dry. How would a coin that was recently freed react? I also think that alot of angels choose they're victims or partners carefully. I don't think it would be so unheard of for a coin to fall into possession of the right individual. Who knows the black death, 100 years war, WWI, WWII the denarians helped or pushed in just the right directions. When you deal with ancient creatures like the fallen they are monsters unto themselves. For a denarian twenty fifty or a hundred years is a drop in the bucket. A moment in time. Granted Nicco thinks long term it's not unheard of for a longer term plan to be set out. The Denarians plan for all contengenices so long term goals are one such contengency.

[FutureGameDesigner]

Only Nic's group does the disease and war subtlety stuff.  Tessa and the rest just run around and kill people...essentially.  Nic takes the long view, Tessa just wants to wreak havoc right friggin' now.  Occasionally, they find ways to meet in the middle.  And they generally tolerate each other because they're both getting the job done even if in different ways.

Often the hosts are chosen at least semi-carefully, especially in Nic's group, but even then they kinda take whatever's available.  There's always someone around to become a host, but the best picks in terms of what they bring to the table as a host are usually the least interested or susceptible.  So, they go for the most likely to turn, instead.  Tessa's bunch just ruins people's lives so that they have no choice but to become a host and they really don't care at all about who the host is, because few of her gang ever hold on to one for more than a few years.  In Nic's group, hosts are long-term investments.  In Tessa's group, hosts are disposable suits.

I understand that they're supposed to have an almost alien perspective because of their age and nature...but still that's just literary smoke and mirrors.  When it comes to the game, their knowledge and decision-making are limited by the intellectual capacity of the group.  They can't do anything we as players and GMs can't think of.  So, we slap the "incomprehensibly alien" sticker on it for purposes of heightened drama.  But, it has no valid weight in how they actually perform in the game.

But hey, as long as we all leave out that no-talent loser, Lovecraft...we're good I think.

[Bruce Coulson]

Ultimately, either group could pick the 'right' host for this kind of story.  Just because one faction is known for subtelty and the other for direct destruction doesn't mean an individual Denarian can't come up with an elaborate scheme of corruption...or that it wouldn't be supported.

I've never thought of the Denarians as 'incomprehensibly alien'.  Fiendishly convoluted at times, with goals that are unclear to those opposing them (other than 'bring about the apocalypse and have our side win' kind of goal), but ultimately understandable (if horrific).

Outsiders are the ones who are 'incomprehensibly alien'; whose goals (if they even have goals) cannot be understood.  All we are allowed to know is that if the Outsiders ever break through, reality, as we know it, ends.  Those who 'serve' them (again, the term isn't correct; those who decide their desires will be gained by bringing forth power from Outside) are mortal, so their goals could be understood; but not those from Outside.

And Lovecraft's visions still continue to inspire writers, artists, film-makers,...and game designers.