Author Topic: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?  (Read 3655 times)

Offline cetra02

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« on: July 21, 2010, 09:17:12 PM »
Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?  Weather it is an individual or a group doingh the crafting.  THoughts and opinions are appricated.

Offline Deadmanwalking

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 09:25:42 PM »
Sure, lesser ones anyway. I mean, Harry thought he could manage Hexenwolf belts with a bit of effort, and those are Items of Power. But, of course, anyone who keeps them pays the Refresh cost in full. That's just how powers work.

Offline JosephKell

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 317
  • Total Refresh Cost: +2 (Pure Mortal)
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 09:50:04 PM »
Sure, lesser ones anyway. I mean, Harry thought he could manage Hexenwolf belts with a bit of effort, and those are Items of Power. But, of course, anyone who keeps them pays the Refresh cost in full. That's just how powers work.
Most important part underlined.  "Perpetual Mojo Machines make Flying Spaghetti Monster cry."
If you have to ask, it probably breaks a Law of Magic.  You're just trying to get the Doom of Damocles.

Offline Belial666

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 11:38:42 PM »
Perpetual Motion machines on the other hand are not a problem. A determined thaumaturgist could apply a +12 "might" effect to keep moving a huge windmill or similar contraption for several human generations. Then he applies the move to a large water pump through a long axis so the magical effect doesn't touch the water and uses the moving water to move a hydroelectric generator half a mile away (far enough so no interference applies).

And thus you have the first eldritch power generator with a power output of 0.5 megawatt. Do it enough times and everyone on earth has free energy, forever.

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2010, 03:18:45 AM »
There are things that use IoP rules that are not, strictly speaking, Items of Power so much as Powers tied to items. Madrigal Raith's Wardcloths are listed as Items of Power, with a note explaining that instead of being Unbreakable, they can be replaced easily. Similarly, I suspect its possible to destroy Hexenwolf belts, or they would litter the landscape after enough time. Items like these are the kind I would place within a mortal wizard's ability to craft.

I would never allow a mortal wizard to craft an unbreakable (and therefore permanent) Item of Power. Permanency is not something within the reach of mortal magic. Similarly, I think it might be overkill to require including an Aspect devoted to being Wielder of the Sword of Frank Jones. Keeping these factors in mind, I would allow a Wizard to purchase "Items of Power" that he crafted.

Offline Ophidimancer

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2010, 03:42:39 AM »
I would never allow a mortal wizard to craft an unbreakable (and therefore permanent) Item of Power.

I would, but it would be once in a lifetime occurrences and probably require patronage from some sort of higher power.

Offline JustinS

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2010, 04:00:15 AM »
As a minimum, constructing an Item of Power is an on-screen event (at least for the first time for any given item), as opposed to foci and normal enchantments that go on in the background...

Offline Todjaeger

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 332
  • Dresden Files Alpha Burn Playtester
    • View Profile
    • Butchered New Haven campaign site
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2010, 05:27:55 AM »
As a minimum, constructing an Item of Power is an on-screen event (at least for the first time for any given item), as opposed to foci and normal enchantments that go on in the background...

Actually, I would likely handle at least part of the actual creation off-screen, as it would involve rituals, etc.  However, I would definately have the climax of creation occur on screen.  Additionally, the Item of Power creation would also have to occur over an entire story arc, the equivalent to a Major Milestone, or two for that matter.  All the while, the focus of the story arc itself would be gathering what would be needed to create (or empower) the Item of Power.

Lastly, I would require that the caster(s) involved in creating the Item of Power have to permanently sacrifice the number of Refresh points required to gain whatever powers the Item of Power has, without getting any price reduction for it being an Item of Power.  Without making the creation of an Item of Power cost the same as just gaining the power normally, it could lead to players abusing the ability to create Items of Power, instead of making it a sacrifice to do so. 

From a perspective on the series, just how many Items of Power have appeared?  The four Hexenwulf belts, the three Swords of the Cross, the Shroud of Turin (which might be an Item of Power...), a noose-tie worn by a sinister ~2,000 year old man, a black magic staff sometimes used by a crotchety old Scottish wizard.  Plus there might also have been one or two other, additional items I missed.  In short, these things are not exactly all that common.

What might be better for players (or more interesting) is for players to have to search for lost/missing/stolen items of power.  There are both historical examples of things which might be Items of Power, like the Spear of Destiny, or the Sword of St. Joan of Arc, or examples can be taken from fairly recent history thriller-movies like National Treasure, or the Indiana Jones-series.
Kill the Child, Doom the World...  Or is it, Kill the Child, Save the World?

Dresden Files Purity test: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity.html

My results: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity-result.html?55:70:18:23:6:6:17:26:11:27:11:37:14:41:20:28:3:5:

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2010, 05:51:49 AM »
I would, but it would be once in a lifetime occurrences and probably require patronage from some sort of higher power.

I should have clarified--a mortal wizard using mortal magic. I believe Kemmler, as the creator of a magical tradition so mighty it counts as its own sponsor, could have made them. I'm certain, barring WoJ, that a caster channeling mojo from the wellspring of Arctis Tor or bought with a demonic pact could do it.

Some of this may spring from my conception of what Items of Power are intended to be. Given even a Warden's Sword simply takes up Enchanted Item slots, whereas our posterchild for the IoP line is a Sword of the Cross, I operate from the assumption that they default to powerful artifacts and ancient relics, or expressions of inhuman power. Sure, they're an easy system way to represent powerful items like Madrigal's Ward Cloths. But I don't consider those part of the main category.

Offline Wyrdrune

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2010, 06:33:51 AM »
Quote
And thus you have the first eldritch power generator with a power output of 0.5 megawatt. Do it enough times and everyone on earth has free energy, forever.
{/quote]

but... as i heard on wizards of waverly place: "wizards are like super heroes, but they don't do anything for society... "

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 07:58:53 AM »
I would allow a PC to craft an Item of Power, given the right story-based opporunity and circumstances.

However, I wouldn't apply the thaumaturgy rules to the process.

Getting an Item of Power, assuming the story has provided the opportunity, is mechanically as simple as paying the Refresh. I don't believe a player should be able to produce a powerful artifact just because they can manage the right amount of Shifts, but likewise, if it's fitting that a character should be able to forge a powerful artifact as part of the story, then I don't believe the rules should be the last obstacle in that process.

Offline DesertCoyote

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Should it be possible to craft Items of Power?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 09:01:14 AM »
@cetra
Yeah, I'm personally fond of the idea of crafting items of power.  Wait until you guys start investigating the 4 kids I sent you after at the end of our last session.   :P

BTW,  If you are still serious about making magic guns,  I've pretty much decided that as long as you don't create it with any mortal magic, it's not a first law violation.  The Laws of Magic only govern mortal spell casters and magic.  If the gun fired fae magic and wasn't wielded by a wizard, it would be a grey area the wardens would have to sort out.  That being said, one of our party did get drafted into the wardens at the end of our last campaign, so I can imagine how that will go.

Also, interchangeable cylinders would be a nuisance to carry around from a practical standpoint.  Just come up with a design for a gun and give it command words or something to change powers.


@everyone else
I would allow a PC to craft an Item of Power, given the right story-based opporunity and circumstances.

However, I wouldn't apply the thaumaturgy rules to the process.

Getting an Item of Power, assuming the story has provided the opportunity, is mechanically as simple as paying the Refresh. I don't believe a player should be able to produce a powerful artifact just because they can manage the right amount of Shifts, but likewise, if it's fitting that a character should be able to forge a powerful artifact as part of the story, then I don't believe the rules should be the last obstacle in that process.

I'm with worldmaker here.  I'd let enchanted items go under thaumaturgy rules, but not items of power.  My group has brought up new wardens being swordless several times.  If we can agree on something, I might be inclined to let them come up with a replacement design, but as we've already discussed, it would take place over the course of several campaigns.