Author Topic: Character Creation Help  (Read 7356 times)

Tbora

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Character Creation Help
« on: July 20, 2010, 10:42:31 PM »
I am looking to build a Demon Summoner for my character, problem is I am not sure how to go about that.

The power level I am using is 18 refresh, 60 skill points, capped at fantastic.

Here is what I have so far:

Powers:

[-3] Evocation
[-3] Thaumaturgy
[-2] Sponsored Magic – Faustian Bargain:  Standard sponsored magic benefits. • Faustian Bargain comes automatic, additional specializations in Summoning/Binding: +1 to control, +1 to complexity, stacking on top of any existing specializations. • Grants Summoning/Binding at speed and methods of evocation • (Flavor - The Sponsor provides the name for the Demon Summoned)

I figure the rest will probably go into refinements, but I don't really understand the mechanics beyond this. :P


Offline Ophidimancer

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 11:04:52 PM »
Well you're really going to want to come up with some Aspects for your character, because that's where all the juicy details about your character come from.  Aspects are descriptive words or phrases that summarize the type of stories you're hoping to tell with your character.

Characters generally have seven Aspects, and the process of coming up with them really helps you to get in character as well as helping your Game Master work your character into his or her story.

The first Aspect is the High Concept, which is basically the core concept of the character.  This would be the phrase you would use to describe the character to someone in a short conversation and is something that probably isn't meant to ever change about the character.  Harry Dresden, for example, has the High Concept Wizard Private Eye.

The next Aspect you pick is called your Trouble, which is basically a description about what kind of problems your character consistently has, the kinds of things that drive the character to do what she does.  Harry is often faced with the choice of exercising the immense potential for power that he has, making his Trouble The Temptation Of Power.

Someone else can tell you about the other Aspects, since I have to go back to work.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 11:18:49 PM »
From previous experience, I'd say Tbora's pretty good on the Aspect front, it's more the mechanical part that's troublesome.

In terms of mechanics, well, it really depends on how focused you want this guy to be on Summoning, and whether you want him to be able to summon stuff to kill human beings (necessitating Lawbreaker and meaning the Wardens are on his ass or will be shortly).

Offline Ophidimancer

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 11:38:48 PM »
From previous experience, I'd say Tbora's pretty good on the Aspect front, it's more the mechanical part that's troublesome.

Oops, sorry Tbora!  I don't mean to be condescending.

Tbora

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 12:14:06 AM »
Oops, sorry Tbora!  I don't mean to be condescending.

No problem, no harm no foul, as the saying goes.

But yeah what I need help with is mostly the mechanics.

As for your question DWM, yeah I want him to be able to summon things that are lethal, so lawbreakers (1st Law) are going to be necessary.

As for how specialized: As much so as possible.

This character I am picturing as a significantly more intelligent and competent version of Binder.

Enough so, that he can summon pretty badass demons on the fly (think around 10-15 refresh on average) casually, and something like the Scarecrow (purely example, by that I mean the REALLY tough dudes at 25 refresh) with a lot of effort.

Offline GruffAndTumble

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 01:43:21 AM »
A 10-15 refresh Demon is not "pretty badass." It is a lean, mean, killing machine. We're talking something that can pull Supernatural Strength, Toughness, Speed AND Recovery, with a point left over for Claws, thanks to the "holy stuff" Catch, at 15. You could go from this all-rounder 15 to a specialized Hunter-Killer at a mere 10 with Cloak of Shadows, Supernatural Speed/Strength, and perhaps Inhuman Recovery (for hit and run). Or a Facestomp McDaywrecker with Mythic Strength, Claws, and Hulking Size for a mere 9!

With 25 Refresh, we're not talking "really tough dudes." We're talking "its either a heavily Refined Spellcaster or an incarnate god-monster." Think Mythic EVERYTHING. Because that is readily available. Alternately, think Physical Immunity with a +0 Catch, layered onto the kind of stopping power that makes Uber-Ghouls think twice about engaging--Mythic Strength, Sacred Guardian or an ACAEBG equivalent, and Psychic attacks like Domination just because.

If you want a combat servitor that can put the hurt on your average practitioner or even lesser Denarian, you've got it with a couple of mid-refresh beasties. What you're discussing is something for engaging entire Ghoul Clans or Ogre warbands.

Tbora

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 01:47:31 AM »
In case you missed it:

This character is for an 18 refresh game, where the enemies on average will have 20-30 refresh.

So engaging an entire ghoul clan is not out of the question.

I know what I am talking about.


Offline Ophidimancer

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 02:40:37 AM »
You're making a Pokèmon trainer, in essence.  No offense, that's just the term I use for characters with a stable of pets they pull out for fights.  I think my advice would be to have these demons statted up as characters in their own right, just that they all have the Extreme Consequence of being bound to serve and obey your character.

The whole process of summoning, containing, and binding an entity takes awhile and doesn't make for entertaining gaming, in my opinion.  Especially for the stable of pets that are supposed to be at your beck and call.  You shouldn't have to waste screen time summoning them and fighting them into submission every time you want to unleash them on your foes.

What I would suggest is definitely creating your stable of pets, stat them out and give them names, so not only can you keep track of their mechanics, but you can also give them personalities and make them supporting NPC's.

Then, give them an automatic Extreme Consequence of being bound to serve and obey you, representing the fact that you magically beat them into submission with Thaumaturgy sometime in the past and inflicted servitude upon them.

Then I would suggest getting some sort of pre-programmed way of summoning them from the Nevernever.  Oh, about that, I'd also suggest giving all your demons Swift Transition and No Mortal Home for convenience.

This pre-programmed summons could either be an Enchanted Item, or a Rote.  I think I would suggest a Rote, so you're not limited in the number of times per session you can summon something, but you may want the Enchanted Item so that you don't take stress for summoning.  Your Rotes or Enchanted Items would have to be programmed with enough strength to beat the resistance of your demons, so you'll probably want to take a lot of Refinements to pump up your power.

Now you have some pre-set ways to summon demons without having to take entire scenes away from game to do so.  You'll probably have to browbeat your demons every once in awhile, when plot appropriate, to reassert yourself as their lord and master.

You'll also still have the chops to summon and bind something new if need be, but the acquisition of a new demon should be significant enough to spend some screen time on it.

Tbora

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 02:52:25 AM »
Not what I was looking for exactly, buts its an interesting solution.

Can you help me go through and do this mechanically then?

Offline GruffAndTumble

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 03:17:39 AM »
Hm. I have difficulty imagining a Dresdenverse game where 20-30 refresh of opponents in a fight is "typical" without some massive shifts in genre assumptions, but I can understand and respect that not everyone has the same views as me on such topics. I apologize if I came off as overly strong or condescending. It was not my intent--I was just operating on a surprised footing.

Tbora

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 06:38:32 AM »
Bump, can I get some help for this please?

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 06:58:22 AM »
I'm really busy tonight, but I'll try and have something for you by tomorrow.

Tbora

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 03:23:15 PM »
Deadman, you are a saint.

If I were a catholic I would be sure to nominate you to the pope ten years after you die.

Offline ballplayer72

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 03:26:07 PM »
From previous experience, I'd say Tbora's pretty good on the Aspect front, it's more the mechanical part that's troublesome.

In terms of mechanics, well, it really depends on how focused you want this guy to be on Summoning, and whether you want him to be able to summon stuff to kill human beings (necessitating Lawbreaker and meaning the Wardens are on his ass or will be shortly).

but Binder can kill humans with his lackeys without busting the First Law.  I'm confused (otherwise harry woulda offed him or morgan would've)
Only a dumb SOB brings a knife to a gunfight

Offline Ophidimancer

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Re: Character Creation Help
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 03:44:46 PM »
Ok, so let's say you have a stable of four demons that you have defeated and enslaved:

Grimnos - A nasty little homunculus that looks like a naked old man with a bald head, bat-like ears, and a filthy tongue.  He was the first demon you enslaved, with a Conviction score low enough (+0) that your apprentice level skills could best, but with the useful ability to throw bolts of fire from his hands as a Breath Weapon.

Mezz'Thun - A squat creature of living shadow, this demon speaks in a hollow voice and is as featureless as ink, except for twin points of lambent flames that serve as its eyes.  Made of a bit sterner stuff than your imp (Conviction +1), it's still rather single minded, though useful for a Stunt that allows it to extrude tentacles of its substance and Grapple multiple targets, as well as its ability to take damage, since it has Armor 2 from Supernatural Toughness with a Catch of Holy attacks.

Belliona - A seductive demoness who approached you about making a pact.  You're still not sure as to her reasons, but you have definitely benefited from the relationship.  If it weren't for her tail and horns she'd be a strikingly beautiful woman of seemingly Middle Eastern descent.  She uses her Human Guise, a Superb Rapport score, and her Incite Emotion (Lust) to good effect against your enemies and for the entertainment of your friends.  Quite a bit more willful than your first two demons, Belliona has Good (+3) Conviction.

Thul'Zan - A minor noble in the demon hierarchy, Thul'Zan gave you the fight of your life when you summoned him.  Manifesting as a hulking humanoid with plates of spiked armor fused into its skin and a greatsword the size of an I-beam, this demon's Great (+4) Conviction meant that you were moments away from being decapitated and eaten when you managed to beat him by the skin of your mental teeth.  Grudgingly he knelt and swore fealty to you.  This is your heavy hitter with Inhuman Speed, Supernatural Toughness, and Supernatural Strength.

I'm going to assume that the Containment and Binding parts are already done and just concentrate on the Summoning spell.  According to YS273, when summoning an entity, the complexity of the spell has to beat the creature's Conviction roll, suggesting a complexity of 10 to be a good round number to beat the best roll of something with Superb (+5) Conviction.

According to YS288, using Sponsored Magic to summon quickly basically works like Evocation, you summon shifts of Power and then roll Discipline to control the spell.  You take one hit of +1 stress for summoning the power and then one hit of (Final Spell Complexity - (Conviction + Complexity Bonus*)) stress.  The Discipline roll is made at the Difficulty of the total shifts of power summoned.

* I'm allowing +Thaumaturgical Complexity to factor in here instead of +Evocation Power because I think your Faustian Bargain bonus should count when summoning demons.

To be able to summon Grimnos (Conviction +0) reliably, for example, you're going to want to summon at least 5 shifts of power to beat a possible roll of +4 on his part.  Then you'll need to roll a 5 or more with Discipline to control the spell.  Let's say you have a Conviction +5 and Discipline +5, which I'd highly recommend.  Then the default specialization bonus you get from having Thaumaturgy (+1 Diabolism Complexity, let's say) as well as the bonuses you get from Faustian Bargain (+1 Complexity, +1 Control) give you an effective Conviction +7 and Discipline +6.  You can easily summon the power and control to get you your imp, you can even take it as a Rote, if you want, meaning that you can decide to take an automatic +0 roll and forgo the possibility of getting a negative roll.

To summon Thul'Zan (Conviction +4), on the other hand, you'd want to summon 9 shifts of power.  This means that you would take a 3-stress hit, 1 automatic plus 2 for the difference between 9 and your effective Conviction of 7.  Then you'd need to meet or beat 9 on a Discipline roll.  Better pump some Fate Points into this.  You could also take Refinements to get more Focus Item slots and increase your effective Conviction and Discipline scores for the purposes of summoning your demons.  Each Refinement gives you +2 to your Focus Items.  Take 3 Refinements and you can pump yourself up to an effective Conviction +9 and Discipline +10.  With those kinds of scores, you can be summoning even Conviction +5 demons with a Rote.

All of this, of course, depends on the Conviction scores of the demons you want to summon.  This requires adjudication by your GM as to how much Conviction a particular demon should have.