Potions, Brewing, And strength caps

[Ala Alba]

1 book of shadows (crafting focus strength +4, frequency +2)

One note. Unless you spend specializations in Focus for crafting, the amount of Focus Item Slots that can be placed in a single item are limited to your Lore, IIRC. So you'd have to split that item into two separate ones.

Not a big deal, though.

[Belial666]

Well, the Book of Shadows can be ala "Charmed", an actual item of power that gives refinement benefits (specifically, focus) to anyone who has magical ability (ritual or thaumaturgy). On the plus side, you can cram 2 more refinements due to one-time discount. On the minus side, EVERYONE will want to steal it. I mean, they tried just that on the Charmed what, two times every 3 episodes in the whole series?

[mostlyawake]

Can you really give someone perception +12?

[Deadmanwalking]

Belial666: That mostly works...but the Potions are really iffy.

Firstly, a Potion is explicitly only one use, ever. Frequency bonuses are useless on them. If it's not a Potion, you get the three uses...but can't burn Fate POoints to make it more potent.

Secondly, as Veils act as 'a magical Stealth roll' it is very unlikely that the Veil will survive taking an attack action (Stealth usually doesn't).

Thirdly, you've burned 2 FP on this...a fair number of people could spot you pretty easily for an only slighly higher investment in FP (or even a lower one if they've got some navel-gazing Aspects available).



The Invulnerability and Awareness potions won't get the day-long base duration of the Veil one, since in neither case is there Thaumaturgy to do that, so they'll last one round by default...and thus the invulnerability one's better as a non-potion, and the Awareness one is of somewhat limited utility.

[mostlyawake]

Belial666: That mostly works...but the Potions are really iffy.

Firstly, a Potion is explicitly only one use, ever. Frequency bonuses are useless on them. If it's not a Potion, you get the three uses...but can't burn Fate POoints to make it more potent.

So here's a vote that potions are one use, despite frequency bonuses.  Can someone point to the book where these bonuses would apply to potions? (i already quoted the explicit one use line from YS280).

Secondly, as Veils act as 'a magical Stealth roll' it is very unlikely that the Veil will survive taking an attack action (Stealth usually doesn't).

Thirdly, you've burned 2 FP on this...a fair number of people could spot you pretty easily for an only slighly higher investment in FP (or even a lower one if they've got some navel-gazing Aspects available).

Right.  . A potion-veil would simply let you do one on the fly, without stress or worrying about length. It would still get pierced the first time you did anything aggressive, ect. However, nothing really says it goes away once one person sees through it (see, veiling buildings under thaumaturgy in YS).  But you would get more mileage out of just doing a ritual in the morning, because you could use declarations to set it higher.

The Invulnerability and Awareness potions won't get the day-long base duration of the Veil one, since in neither case is there Thaumaturgy to do that, so they'll last one round by default...and thus the invulnerability one's better as a non-potion, and the Awareness one is of somewhat limited utility.

most people seem to recommend that potions have a duration of "scene" anyways. There isn't really anything that says "if you have a magic effect that isn't clearly spelled out under thaumaturgy, it defaults to one round" as far as I can tell. Some of the examples in the book give effects that last longer than one round (the hyperawareness potion, ect).   One of the things I'd love to hear is how people are assigning complexity, including what time frame they are using as a base.

[Belial666]

a Potion is explicitly only one use, ever.

Except when it isn't;

YS280
A frequency specialization allows you one more use
per session. A strength specialization increases
the effect strength of your basic enchanted items
by 1 (this strength specialization bonus can’t
be traded in for an additional per-session use).
In the case of potions, this can create stronger
potions, or ones that you can get two uses out
of.

Bolded the relevant stuff.


As for the Invulnerability and Awareness potions, Thaumaturgy does do that. Use "simple action" to replicate perception and dodge of 12, and unless otherwise stated, thaumaturgy lasts until the next sunrise.

[Deadmanwalking]

Except when it isn't;
Bolded the relevant stuff.

Hmm. You appear to be correct here, my bad. My bad. I was going with the actual Potion description and missed that bit.

As for the Invulnerability and Awareness potions, Thaumaturgy does do that. Use "simple action" to replicate perception and dodge of 12, and unless otherwise stated, thaumaturgy lasts until the next sunrise.

That's...really shaky, expecially on the Block (Wards are explicitly the Thaumaturgy version of Blocks, see p. 265, or p. 276), and violates the spirit of the system left and right. I mean, if it were that easy to do day-long effects of that nature, the ability to make Enchanted Items that do Evocation effects wouldn't even be listed.

[mostlyawake]

Hmm. You appear to be correct here, my bad. My bad. I was going with the actual Potion description and missed that bit.

That's...really shaky, expecially on the Block (Wards are explicitly the Thaumaturgy version of Blocks, see p. 265, or p. 276), and violates the spirit of the system left and right. I mean, if it were that easy to do day-long effects of that nature, the ability to make Enchanted Items that do Evocation effects wouldn't even be listed.

But we're okay with getting a 12 perception at all?  that's why i asked about skill increases using magic.  It seems like someone could just whip out their "potion of guns 12" and go to town all day, which would make everyone want to be an alchemist. Potions clearly don't work like that in the books (Harry's are usually very short term)... so it's wierd that they would work like that here.

I can't find RAW support for it, but it seems like I've come across tons of player recommendations that potion duration start at scene-length or shorter.

[CMEast]

I think that potions can be used to achieve certain effects using skills as a guide to it's strength value - for instance an escape potion that allows you to move to any zone as if you had an athletics equal to the strength of the potion; I don't think it can boost a skill though, at least not in any significant way without causing damage - see biomancy:

potions can be used to boost strength, speed, perception, and other functions of biology— provided that the body being boosted can withstand the stresses of such an effort. Just because muscles have been supercharged to lift a small car doesn’t mean they’re built to withstand the damage that would do; inflicting consequences on the beneficiary to boost spell effectiveness is not uncommon (Torn Muscle Tissue, etc.)

So a potion could boost alertness by a little bit by creating a relevant aspect, but if your own perception is jumping into double digits, expect to suffer from some serious mental or physical issues whether it's paranoia as you can no longer see everywhere, or cataracts as the UV light toasted your suddenly incredibly sensitive lenses.
Improving your guns skill would do the same thing, if I were GM I would happily state that your character has suddenly realised how evil guns can be and is terrified of them, or he becomes so cocky that he spends the rest of the gun fight doing trick shots that knock peoples hats off, bounce guns out of peoples hands and so forth.

[Belial666]

I never said that would not have consequences. And yes, high-power potions could violate the spirit of the rules if used in a broken way. A few notes though:


1) Harry does stealth potions that last hours. So at least this one is possible.
2) It is even easier to use Thaumaturgy for similar effects. A thaumaturgist with a +4 focus and a +2 specialization could perform 10-11 shift thaumaturgies in his specialization without any additional preparation at all. When not in his specialization, he could only do 5-shift ones but he could easily make declarations to make up for it; a small thaumaturgy ritual takes less time than brewing a potion and doesn't take up one of your slots.

[wyvern]

So, I seem to be in a minority here, but this is how I'd deal with potions:

1) Appropriate item power specializations & focus items can increase base potion power - up to the normal maximum of twice your lore.

2) You can boost potion power past that via aspect invocations - but note that this category does *not* include skill-based declarations; every +2 power costs you a fate point.  (Though you can offset this cost by accepting corresponding compels, as per normal - though note that it's recommended that PCs not accrue more than one point's worth of what I'll call "potion debt".)

3) If a potion replicates a skill, it is by default equivalent to a single mundane skill check - so a stealth potion might last for hours if you're using it on a long, boring, stake-out, but would last mere exchanges at best if used in the middle of a fight.  A potion of hyper-aim (for guns skill) would entitle you to a single attack at the boosted value.  A potion of escape grants you a single exchange's worth of movement.  Etc.  If you want the effect of multiple skill checks, buy more than one potion.