Pet House Rules

[Tbora]

Could someone help me with a sponsored magic: Summoning Binding at the Speed of Evocation?

One of my ideas for such a character is someone who made a deal with a Demonlord (An Archangel strength being) for in return for services rendered (Favors) the Demon provides the right to call on the subordinates of the Demonlord in Downbelow's hierarchy along with there Names for calling them.

[Tbora]

Sent this to a couple of people via PM, posting it here to see if I could get some help on it sooner.

Hey I was wondering if you could help me price (and/or redo) this sponsored magic idea for my character

Sponsored Magic: Faustian Bargain (Looking for a better name)

Standard sponsored magic benefits. Faustian Bargain comes automatic, additional specializations in Summoning/Binding: +1 to control, +1 to complexity, stacking on top of any existing specializations.Grants Summoning/Binding at speed of evocation.By spending an FP the possessor can instinctively learn a Name of a Demon (think intellectus) from the sponsor to be able to summon at will.The stronger the Demon's Name the possessor wishes to learn the greater sponsor debt or amount of FP's required to be spend to Learn the name (One FP for every 5 refresh levels for the Demon's Power Level.)

Obviously it needs to be reworded, but I was trying to do a rough power leve demonic equivelent to Soulfire for summoning binding.

[Korwin]

Summoning and Binding is allready near brocken...

How to bind...
If you allow someone to Summon and Bind something like the Scarecrow at Evocation speed... it would definitly be overpowered (all IMHO).

One of my ideas for such a character is someone who made a deal with a Demonlord (An Archangel strength being) for in return for services rendered (Favors) the Demon provides the right to call on the subordinates of the Demonlord in Downbelow's hierarchy along with there Names for calling them.

I made such an Char. (without Sponsored Magic aka. Summoning at Evocation Speed). IMHO in an normal group to powerfull...

Here another try of an Summoning Character, this one with more justification for the social side of Summoning and Binding.

High Aspect: Mortal General for the War Department of the Chinese Hell as described in this books
Trouble: Stupid Orders
Other Aspects: Demons under my Command

Marked by Power -1
Item of Power: Scepter of Command (Spear) +2
Human Form +1
(when using the Item, the Gerneral shows full body (glowing) Tatoos which proclaim his allegiance to the War Department)
Ritual: Summoning and Binding -2
Refinement x 2 -2 (4 Extra Focus Item Slots = 6 Item Slots) +5 Complexity +1 Controll
-------------
Total -1 Refresh
Refinement -1 (2 Focus Item Slots converted into 4 Enchanted Item Slots)
Physical Immunity (only against Mortal Magic) -3
Supernatural Recovery -4
Catch: Wood +3
-------------
Total -1 Refresh
Lawbreaker First (multiple times) -2

Total Refresh Cost of Char. -9


Summoned Item Crafter:
-3 Thaumaturgy +1 Item Crafting Power (Focus Items +2 Wards Complexity)
-21 Refinement
  +6 Item Frequency,
  +5 Item Power,
  +5 Wards Complexity
  +4 Wards Controll, +4 Transformation Complexity
  +3 Transformation Controll, +3 Divination Complexity
  +2 Divination Controll, +2 Summoning Complexity, +2 Summoning Controll, +2 Conjuration Complexity
  +1 Conjuration Controll, +1 Transportation Complexity, +1 Transportaion Controll, +1 Veils Complexity
-2 Inhuman Strenght
-2 Inhuman Thoughness
-2 Inhuman Recovery
+3 Catch: Wood

Skills:
Superb +5: Lore, Resourcess
Great +4: Discipline, Conviction


The General orders his Magic Items by this Demon (and his Home is warded by this Demon).
Tai Chi clothes of hellish Protection (Block +10 or Armor +5 / 7 uses per session).
Silk gloves of Sudden painfull Death (to hit with Guns, Damage +8 / 9 uses per session).
Kukri of Dimensional Rending (opens door into the NeverNever +6 effect / 11 uses per session).
Facemask of Skulking (Veil +8 / 9 uses per session)

Bodyguard/Guide in the NeverNever
-4 Supernatural Speed
-2 Supernatural Strenght
-4 Supernatural Recovery
+3 Catch: Wood
-8 Physical Immunity
Catch +2: Taoistic holy relicts
-1 Claws
-1 Flesh Mask


Skills:
Superb +5: Lore, Awareness
Great +4: Fists, Endurance

[Tbora]

Just how many refresh is that guy O.o

And I disagree, I would have something like the scarecrow be one of the Summoners Big Guns.

Not something he pulls out all that often, but more something if he needs to go war.After all, its still taxing for it.In regards to your thread I am more inclined towards Deadmans view on summoning/binding then your own in anycase.

[Tbora]

I have looked at it, and looked at it, with like no rules for binding and determining the refresh level of constructs/summons its kind of hard to figure out how to do this, the rules put together by Korwin seem kind off to me.

I'd really like some good imput on this...

[CMEast]

I think Korwin has pretty definitively answered on this, though you're right in that the rules for summoning and binding are particularly complicated. (Check out the how to bind link if you haven't already as it gives a few good examples)

To be honest I think the refresh amount and abilities for the demons needs to be decided between yourself and the GM. For instance Korwin's character had a particularly vicious magical crafter that would allow the PC access to powerful enchanted items without pay for the skills needed to use them which, if I were the GM, I wouldn't allow.

I'd personally limit the refresh of the demons you can summon to your own refresh, thinking that your character wouldn't have been given more powerful demon names than he could safely control (or perhaps I'd allow one extra powerful combat demon with a higher refresh, with the risk that he may escape his bindings and go on a rampage).

Really it's all about maximising your ability to summon, taking either ritual or sponsored magic and lots of refinements for extra item slots, then creating a focus item that allows you to cast complex spells straight away.

[Deadmanwalking]

The Sponsored Magic looks reasonable and balanced...except for the Name learning, which is divergent from most other equivalent rules, and I find distinctly wonky. I'm not sure what I'd do about it to make it work better, though...

Korwin and I discussed this in the thread where the Demon General is from, so I'm not gonna re-open that discussion here.

[Tbora]

Here is the write up for the Sponsored Magic as of the rewrite:

Sponsored Magic – Faustian Bargain:  Standard sponsored magic benefits. • Faustian Bargain comes automatic, additional specializations in Summoning/Binding: +1 to control, +1 to complexity, stacking on top of any existing specializations. • Grants Summoning/Binding at speed and methods of evocation • (Flavor - The Sponsor provides the name for the Demon Summoned which is reflected as the Sponsor Debt when used in summoning higher end refresh demons)

Deadman, can you help me put together a Demon Summoner for a character?

Its my standard bit 18 refresh, 60 skill points, capped at Fantastic.

[Archmage_Cowl]

Not sure if it would help any here, but in one of my campaigns one of my players made a deal with a denarian for hellfire. One of the major things he wanted the hellfire to do was to be able to summon demons at the speed of evocation. So how we decided to do it was to make it as such:

  no name is required to call the demon as that would be part of the lore in thaumaturgy and your sponsor handles that (though having a name certainly could provide bonus's). Then whenever he summoned he could do it three ways mainly. First was he cast the binding first and gave it a shift to duration (to make it sorta hang in the air) then he would cast the summoning and poof trapped creature, though it requires two turns to do it like that and the binding is almost always short term (like a mild). The second way was to make the summoning and binding the same spell basically but this inevitably made it alot tougher and thus the creatures summoned were almost always weaker by necessity. The third was (generally for sponsor debt) he could declare that he was serving his sponsor intrest meaning that the creatures he summoned would serve him automatically cause their boss man told them to. This way he could summon fairly tough demons really quickly (but then he inevitably ended up serving his sponsors intrests very soon).

That was a bit long but i found that method worked really well for summoning and binding at the speed of evocation, it made the summoning either difficult, which is always intresting for battle, or costly which is always interesting for story.

[Tbora]

Thanks for that, but I kind of find that a bit unbalanced, and its not really what I am looking for as far what I want for this character.

[Archmage_Cowl]

Thanks for that, but I kind of find that a bit unbalanced, and its not really what I am looking for as far what I want for this character.

see i dont really find it unbalanced as it's kinda ridiculously easy to get rid of/prevent summoned creatures. A circle (even one made by a regular mortal) can do it. A counter spell can do it (the magic animating the creature vanish and it returns to ectoplasm) plus the creatures specific weakness's. Plus the summoner has to be able to relay their commands to their pet to get their pet to do nearly anything.

[Tbora]

So here is what I have got so far:

[-3] Evocation
[-3] Thaumaturgy
[-2] Sponsored Magic - Faustian Bargain:  Standard sponsored magic benefits. • Faustian Bargain comes automatic, additional specializations in Summoning/Binding: +1 to control, +1 to complexity, stacking on top of any existing specializations. • Grants Summoning/Binding at speed and methods of evocation • (Flavor - The Sponsor provides the name for the Demon Summoned which is reflected as the Sponsor Debt when used in summoning higher end refresh demons)
[-1] The Sight
[-0] Soulgaze
[-0] Wizard's Constitution

I figure the rest would be refinements for item slots to help with a really big focus item, and then refinements to improve his capabilities for Summoning Binding.Plus maybe a couple lawbreakers (1st)

[Korwin]

Just how many refresh is that guy O.o

Submerged

And I disagree, I would have something like the scarecrow be one of the Summoners Big Guns.

Not something he pulls out all that often, but more something if he needs to go war.After all, its still taxing for it.In regards to your thread I am more inclined towards Deadmans view on summoning/binding then your own in anycase.

But that doenst change the fact, that he can summon and bind the scarecrow...

I have looked at it, and looked at it, with like no rules for binding and determining the refresh level of constructs/summons its kind of hard to figure out how to do this, the rules put together by Korwin seem kind off to me.

I'd really like some good imput on this...

As far as I can see, my interpretation is Rules as Written.
(I should mention, that I use an HR to limit summoning).
Another solution would be to port in Summoning rules from other FATE games (like Legends of Anglerre), but then you would need to introduce minions-rules...

[Tbora]

Again, I don't see any issues with binding the Scrowcrow, its strong.Really strong.

My question to you:

So what?

[Deadmanwalking]

Actually, thinking about it, depending on how one interprets it's Physical Immunity, you might not be able to keep a Scarecrow in a Circle long enough to bind it. The Binding itself would work, in theory, as a Mental Attack, so that'd work...but the Circle to entrap it is a Physical thing and it might just be able to walk through it. Or at least batter it down before you can bind it (since the Ward can by definition not damage it).

That leaves aside the possibility of Mab becoming annoyed that you're stealing her pet assassins, of course. And the difficulty of getting a greater Fetch's True Name.