Author Topic: Hexing and EMP Hardening  (Read 14174 times)

Offline CMEast

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 06:57:45 PM »
Well for deliberate hexing the +4 makes it pretty hard (and it matches that era of technology nicely).

For accidental hexing as a compel, well that's up to the GM so there's probably an appropriate level of magic flying around to justify a compel and I can always spend a fate point to counter it.

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 04:49:31 AM »
Actually, there is something mentioned in Turn Coat which suggests that some forms of EMP hardening could provide some protection vs. Hexing.

One of the methods utilized to provide EMP protection is with Faraday cages.  In Turn Coat, Harry had a location setup with a Faraday cage configured to act as a Ward, given that there was basically no Threshold to work with.

Huh bwuh?!?!??

It wasn't a literal Faraday cage, dude! It was a metaphor, explaining the magic in terms that would take less time to detail--unless I have read Turn Coat wrong three times in a row, which I suppose, is possible. Pretty sure that its a metaphor though.

Offline Todjaeger

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 332
  • Dresden Files Alpha Burn Playtester
    • View Profile
    • Butchered New Haven campaign site
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 06:23:49 AM »
Huh bwuh?!?!??

It wasn't a literal Faraday cage, dude! It was a metaphor, explaining the magic in terms that would take less time to detail--unless I have read Turn Coat wrong three times in a row, which I suppose, is possible. Pretty sure that its a metaphor though.

I would need to re-read that particular portion of Turn Coat again, but as I recall, it was an actual Faraday cage to which Harry used as a framework to construct a ward on/around.  The premise as discussed between Harry and another member of the White Council who was there* was that the Faraday cage would act as a 'buffer' of sorts, absorbing and grounding out some incoming magic.  As I recall, it was primarily expected to block/absorb scrying and divination spells as opposed to more energetic Evocation castings.

As an aside, it might be possible to construct a magic circle and have a technological item located within the circle prior to it being 'closed' and have the circle provide protection vs. accidental or deliberate hexing attempts.

*Please note, I have not mentioned who else was there as I do not wish to spoil Turn Coat for someone who has yet to read it.
Kill the Child, Doom the World...  Or is it, Kill the Child, Save the World?

Dresden Files Purity test: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity.html

My results: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity-result.html?55:70:18:23:6:6:17:26:11:27:11:37:14:41:20:28:3:5:

Offline Midget Ninja

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1094
  • Face Palm
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2010, 07:00:20 AM »
Butter's theory doesn't really explain why internal combustion engines can be hexed. There's no way an emp could take out something like the beetle, but magic can. So I'm going to say that emp hardening wouldn't really be of much use against hexing.
The Battery.

Offline Slife

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 604
  • Fuego Maximilian‽
    • View Profile
    • VGF, Yo.  Home of the World's First Spritecomic
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2010, 07:05:34 AM »
Everyone knows that the ratio of working hardware to nonworking hardware is constant.  So you just have to have some sacrificals and a sympathy spell set up.


If the battery went out, it's hard to explain why nerves wouldn't have gone out much earlier.
Rule one of magic:  Never, ever, under any circumstances, trust someone named "Morningstar".

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2010, 07:06:51 AM »
I would need to re-read that particular portion of Turn Coat again, but as I recall, it was an actual Faraday cage to which Harry used as a framework to construct a ward on/around.  The premise as discussed between Harry and another member of the White Council who was there* was that the Faraday cage would act as a 'buffer' of sorts, absorbing and grounding out some incoming magic. 

I just checked, and the wording is infuriatingly vague. It is definitely something that is actually referred to as a Faraday Cage, but there is language that implies (to me, at least) that it just uses the same principles, but with mystical grounding structures rather than electrical ones.

You could be right though, so I apologize for my earlier extreme reaction. It was out of line to act like that without checking the book first. Hope I haven't put you off!

...It still does absolutely nothing to prove that "Wizards are electromagnets" fanon theory.

Offline Midget Ninja

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1094
  • Face Palm
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2010, 07:08:49 AM »
I just checked, and the wording is infuriatingly vague. It is definitely something that is actually referred to as a Faraday Cage, but there is language that implies (to me, at least) that it just uses the same principles, but with mystical grounding structures rather than electrical ones.

You could be right though, so I apologize for my earlier extreme reaction. It was out of line to act like that without checking the book first. Hope I haven't put you off!

...It still does absolutely nothing to prove that "Wizards are electromagnets" fanon theory.
Well it's more than Fanon. We have a main character say they are and no other characters have said they arn't so...  :-\

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 07:14:04 AM »
Well it's more than Fanon. We have a main character say they are and no other characters have said they arn't so...  :-\

And that makes it canon? A character with limited (at best) understanding of magical principles and faulty data premises makes an off-the-cuff guess, and Jim doesn't waste word count pointing the nature of the comment out. That is all that has happened. What Butters says is not Word of God Jim canon. People need to stop treating it as such.

On a different note, would you mind explaining your post in more detail, Slife? I can't figure out what you're trying to say, other than that it sounds relevant and possibly important.

Offline Midget Ninja

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1094
  • Face Palm
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2010, 07:17:02 AM »
And that makes it canon? A character with limited (at best) understanding of magical principles and faulty data premises makes an off-the-cuff guess, and Jim doesn't waste word count pointing the nature of the comment out. That is all that has happened. What Butters says is not Word of God Jim canon. People need to stop treating it as such.

On a different note, would you mind explaining your post in more detail, Slife? I can't figure out what you're trying to say, other than that it sounds relevant and possibly important.
Fanon is something the fans pull out of their asses. It's more than fanon.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 07:21:06 AM by Midget Ninja »

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2010, 07:28:28 AM »
I was not aware Webster's put out a standardized definition of the word "fanon."

If the best you can do to defend your argument is that it is not 100% make-believe, I believe by most debate standards I would be considered on the right side of this one.

Offline Midget Ninja

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1094
  • Face Palm
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2010, 07:31:53 AM »
I was not aware Webster's put out a standardized definition of the word "fanon."

If the best you can do to defend your argument is that it is not 100% make-believe, I believe by most debate standards I would be considered on the right side of this debate.
Sorry...BUT I have a character who says it is. You on the other hand, have NOTHING.  That is 1-0 my favor. 15-love. I have the freaking golden snitch. Now since it is 2:30 AM I bid you GOODNIGHT SIR.

Offline Todjaeger

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 332
  • Dresden Files Alpha Burn Playtester
    • View Profile
    • Butchered New Haven campaign site
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2010, 08:59:33 AM »
I just checked, and the wording is infuriatingly vague. It is definitely something that is actually referred to as a Faraday Cage, but there is language that implies (to me, at least) that it just uses the same principles, but with mystical grounding structures rather than electrical ones.

You could be right though, so I apologize for my earlier extreme reaction. It was out of line to act like that without checking the book first. Hope I haven't put you off!

...It still does absolutely nothing to prove that "Wizards are electromagnets" fanon theory.

Not a problem. Incidentally, since Harry did use the structure to 'hang' spells off of, one way to interpret it is that the structure was indeed a Faraday cage, and the effect of the spells was to convert any inbound spell energy into EM/electrical energy which a Faraday cage would disperse in a normal fashion.  Hence my comment from before that absent more from Jim, it is dependent on how one's own group wishes to handle the issue.

Incidentally, two things.  Towards the end of Grave Peril, Harry was being shot at by people using automatic weapons (submachine guns if I can remember) and the they fired with Harry pumping energy into his Shield Charm/Shield spell, the guns themselves began to jam and misfire.  This is a clear indication that Wizards mess with more than just things operating on the EM spectrum, which Harry confirms in a conversation with Murph when he states his preference for a revolver instead of a (semi) automatic pistol which he could cause to jam.

Secondly, the hexing rules from the playtest itself also had clear indications that at the upper levels of effect, Industrial Revolution technological items and late pre-Industrial Revolution technological (read: firearms and steam engines) items could be impacted, even unconsciously.
Kill the Child, Doom the World...  Or is it, Kill the Child, Save the World?

Dresden Files Purity test: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity.html

My results: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity-result.html?55:70:18:23:6:6:17:26:11:27:11:37:14:41:20:28:3:5:

Offline GruffAndTumble

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2010, 09:19:18 PM »
Sorry...BUT I have a character who says it is. You on the other hand, have NOTHING.  That is 1-0 my favor. 15-love. I have the freaking golden snitch. Now since it is 2:30 AM I bid you GOODNIGHT SIR.

I'm sorry if I struck a sore spot, but as I have pointed out earlier in the thread, and as Todjaeger just backed me up on, there is proof Butters is wrong, above and beyond the point that Butters is not a reliable source regarding magic. So, I would say that I have proof you are wrong, and you have a stubborn disbelief in facts, which makes it not 1-0 my favor, but one to negative one my favor.

And while I am normally hesitant to directly comment on another's posting quality, I'm going to have to say that if you don't work harder on a halfway decent argument, I'm going to be searching for this forums ignore function.

Offline knnn

  • Special Collections Division
  • Posty McPostington
  • ****
  • Posts: 4946
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2010, 10:16:22 PM »
If someone deliberately built an actual Faraday Cage - meant to protect against energy spikes, one could argue that at some level it works as a magic circle (i.e.  "Ferromancy").  Since we know that circles can protect against a wizard's murphyonic field (that's how Molly watches T.V after all), I wouldn't be surprised if it could stop a hexing spell (at least to some extent).
DV Geek code:

DV knnn v1.2 YR4 FR3 BK++ RP+ JB+ TH WG+ CL(+) SW++++ BC- MC---(+) SH[Murphy+, Molly+]

Find out your Dresden Files "Purity" score: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity.html

Offline darkstarj13

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Hexing and EMP Hardening
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 10:19:20 PM »
I noticed that the only things that are actively hexed are electronic based. You never see harry hexus the guns of the people shooting at him. It seems that the willful hexing of something only effects electronics and an ambiant " murphy's law" effect hits the mechanical systems when a lot of magic is flying.

So looking at it like that, it could be plausible that emp hardening could help stop a direct hex.