Author Topic: Advice on characters  (Read 3955 times)

Offline lankyogre

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Advice on characters
« on: July 13, 2010, 03:49:11 AM »
Since I received such great advice before, I thought I'd try again. Here's two characters I've created for campaigns. If I could get some advice on how they are built, that would be great. I may also thread-necro this occasionally if I come up with new ideas.

First a Pure Mortal Submerged Character.

Character: Samuel Lauer Player: LankyOgre
Template: Pure Mortal
High Concept Aspect: Supernatural Hitman
Trouble Aspect: Stranger in a Strange Land
Aspects: I Can Only Depend on Myself, This is My Rifle, Everyone Has a Weak Spot,


Appearance
Samuel stands about 6 foot tall and is built like a football lineman. He wears a short military buzz cut and usually sports fatigues of some sort. A serious man by nature, Samuel has become even more somber over the years and rarely ever smiles.


ASPECTS
Supernatural Hitman - Samuel kills the supernatural. That's his job and he does it well. Many members of the supernatural community have not caught up with modern technology and Samuel ruthlessly exploits that weakness. (High Concept)
Stranger in a Strange Land - While skilled at recognizing and defeating supernatural threats, Samuel himself is purely mortal. Samuel is not a signatory of the Unseelie Accords and does not need to follow them, or worry about any repercussions for starting a war.

Background
Samuel was born in Arkansas and grew up hunting on a ranch. His father was a harsh man and expected a great deal from Samuel. Early in his life he realized that he would have to make his own way, and nobody would give him anything. Eager to leave the one stop-sign town he grew up in, Samuel enlisted in the army at 18.
Aspect: I Can Only Depend on Myself - Samuel has a hard time trusting others, but he knows exactly what he's capable of and pushes himself to his limits.

Rising Conflict
Samuel enlisted in the army as a basic infantryman and spent a tour of duty in Desert Storm. While in Iraq, Samuel's patrol was ambushed by a group of ghouls. Since “ghouls attacked and ate the squad” looks bad on reports, Samuel ended up honorably discharged and instructed never to speak of his encounter. Realizing that there are things that go bump in the night, Samuel began studying what he could and found ways to defeat supernatural creatures.
Aspect: This Is My Rifle – Samuel has a large collection of guns and implements of death and violence, and he knows how to use them.

The Story: A Bullet Across the Water
While frequenting occult bookstores, Samuel fell in with a sorcerer by the name of Harvey Walters who promised him an introduction to the supernatural. Harvey tried to control Samuel, and Samuel discovered that a bullet from over the river kills a sorcerer just like everyone else.
Aspect: Everyone Has A Weak Spot – Samuel knows that everyone has a weak spot, its just a matter of finding it out.

Whose Path Have You Crossed
Within days of joining the Wardens Nicolas is tasked with hunting down a warlock ravaging New York City, by killing what appears to be random kids. When he hunts down the warlock, Nicolas discovers it is but a boy, having been bullied by the victims, the boy killed them without knowing he was even doing it. Nicolas brings the boy before the Senior Council, and when he is found guilty, Nicolas beheads the boy, despite his moral qualms. When Carl Strakhov realized students at his son's school were dieing in mysterious ways, he contacted Samuel Lauer to make sure it didn't affect his son. Samuel discovered the warlock, but before he was able to clean up the situation he encountered Nicolas. Deciding that it would be better to work with the Warden than against him, Samuel assisted Nicolas in resolving the situation. That, and he had to make sure it was done.

Aspect: I'll Work With Anybody

Whose Path Have You Crossed
In the time since graduating, Garrett has become an accomplished fireman and pyromancer.  His success rate in the mundane fire department is astounding, and he’s sort of a big name around town because of it.  He’s also a member of the Paranet, and when another member, a poor soul cursed with Cassandra’s Tears, comes calling he can’t ignore her frenzied pleas for help.  Despite not believing a word of her prophecies, he finds himself in a deadly battle against one of the Fallen looking to claim her as its own.  Though the victory cost him physically, he does not regret it.   A warden named Nicolas Lebeau, is also tracking down the same Fallen, it seems that the creature is targeting quite a few minor talents, and as signatories of the accords tasked with protecting mortals the White Council (and therefore Nicolas) have an interest in ending this Fallen. Together with Garrett, Nicolas works to ensure the Demon won't hurt any more creatures in his (significantly long for a mortal) lifetime. Samuel was hired by Marcus Pikman to find out who his wife was cheating on him with, and "take care of" the situation. (Hey, sometimes you have to take what pays). After a little investigation, Samuel fended up at an old parking garage. His old "friend" Nicolas was in the middle of fighting some creature, with the help of Garrett. Assuming the Fallen was also the one involved in the affair, Samuel opened fire.  (Pikman still thinks his wife was cheating on him.)

Aspect: When in Doubt, Shoot - Samuel has found that surprise can be a great thing, and sometimes just shooting can solve a lot of problems.


SKILLS
Superb (+5)  Guns
Great (+4)    Alertness, Athletics
Good (+3)    Discipline, Endurance, Fists
Fair (+2)      Conviction, Driving, Presence, Weapons
Average (+1) Contacts, Intimidation, Investigation, Lore, Survival

STUNTS
Alertness
On My Toes: Gain +2 to Alertness when using it to determine initiative.
Fists
Lethal Weapons: Your hands are lethal weapons. When using Fists to strike an unarmored opponent, you are considered to have Weapon:2. Against opponents with Armor:1, your Fists attacks are Weapon:1. There is no benefit against more heavily armored opponents.
Guns
Fast Reload: Provided that you have a supply of ammunition, reloads are rarely an issue. You take no penalty when reloading as a supplemental action; if you're in a race to see who reloads first, or anything else having to do with your speed or ability to reload, gain a +1 on the roll.
Quick-Draw Artist: When a gun is easily accessible drawing barely rates an after-thought. No penalty is taken when a gun is drawn as a supplemental action (page YS:213) and any contest having to do with your ability or speed of drawing a firearm receive a +1 on the roll.
Pin Them Down: When Aiming, the aspect you place on the target cannot be removed so long as they do not move out of the zone, and any attempts to leave the zone face an increased border of 1 as long as you continue to make Guns attacks against that target.
Shoot And Move: When using small firearms (handguns, submachine guns, etc), penalties to rolls due to moving are reduced by up to two.
Sniper: With a properly equipped and adjusted rifle, and something to brace it against or a turn to take aim, suffer no penalties to rolls due to range.
Target Rich Environment: Gain a +1 to attacks with Guns whenever personally outnumbered in a firefight.
Total Refresh Adjustment: -8


Stress Tracks
Physical:  OOOO
Mental:  OOO
Social:  OOO


And Second, a Wereraven trickster/protector
David Peterson
High Concept: Wereraven Tribal Protector
Trouble: I Have a Family
Other Aspects:

Skills:
Superb (+5): Deceit
Great (+4): Investigation, Athletics
Good (+3): Burglary, Stealth, Presence
Fair (+2): Driving, Fists, Guns, Alertness
Average (+1): Resources, Survival, Endurance, Intimidation, Rapport

Raven Skills:
Superb (+5): Deceit
Great (+4): Investigation, Athletics
Good (+3): Burglary, Stealth, Alertness
Fair (+2): Endurance, Fists, Survival, Presence
Average (+1): Resources, Guns, Driving, Intimidation, Rapport

Mortal Stunts
Pick-Pocket: Whether it's a simple bump-and-grab or something more complicated, you're adept at getting people to pay attention to other things while you or an accomplice liberates their pockets of their contents. This includes the filching of small items from a desk or someplace similar. Targets of this action usually oppose with Alertness.
Pilot: Your focus is on aircraft, not cars. Gain +1 to your Driving when piloting an aircraft and an additional +1 when steering float planes.

Supernatural Powers
Beast Change [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Guide My Hand [-1]
Human Form [+1]
   Diminutive Size [-1]
   Inhuman Speed [-2]
   Wings [-1]

Total: 2 Refresh

Appearance & Mannerisms
David is a young man in his late 20's with long black hair and a full beard. He frequently wears comfortable jeans and t-shirts. David enjoys nature and frequently camps, skis, fishes, and goes sky-diving. He can be stubborn and rebellious, but he always does what he thinks is right.

Background
David was born and raised in central Washington State as the youngest of a large family. His father worked on a potato farm and his mother was a school secretary. While he never noticed a lack of food or clothing, his parents were never rich either. In high school he learned to sky dive and frequently got in trouble with his parents and school authorities. Occasionally he would skip school, or go visit his older siblings across the state. Despite his frequent challenges to authority, David never got arrested and managed to graduate high school. Soon after graduating he married his high school sweet heart.
Aspect: “Not if I Don't Have To.”

Rising Conflict
After high school, David went to a local college and started taking flying lessons. Throughout college he continued to take spontaneous vacations with his wife and would barely pass most courses. He continued sky-diving and loved the rush of free-fall. Once, while camping, David stumbled upon something he couldn't explain happening in a clearing in the woods. In his attempt to flee from the clearing, David found himself flying through the forest as a raven, and eventually landing high up in the hills. While scared and stunned, a spirit appeared to David and explained some things. During this conversation David was introduced to the existence of the supernatural and told of a deal his family had made with Grandfather Raven. Though the tribe no longer existed, David's ancestors had made a deal with Grandfather Raven to help protect humankind against supernatural threats. Unlike some of the other defenders of humanity, Grandfather Raven expected David's ancestors to handle problems intelligently and through trickery, not always with brute force. Therefore his ancestors, and now David, were gifted with the ability to change shape as a raven. Since then, David's ancestors have continued to help and guide him as he encounters the supernatural world.
Aspect: My Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandaddy is my Adviser

First Novel:
Soon after encountering his ancestor, David graduated and received his commercial pilot's license. With his wife, he moved to Seattle, at the urging of his “grandfather.” Around this time he also had a son and found it necessary to find a job. While out looking for a job, he met Trevor Macawley. Trevor owned a float plane tour company on Lake Union that was about to collapse and was being “hunted” by a minor Skavis. David intervened and tricked the Skavi into leaving Trevor alone and has since helped Trevor rebuild his company.
Aspect: I Work for a Living

Guest Star: Coming Soon!

Aspect: Coming Soon!

Guest Star Redux: Coming Soon!

Aspect: Coming Soon!




Though, after constructing a few characters and looking at starting to play, I wonder if a wide and shallow skill selection may be better (taking a lot of good or fair and not pushing for the superb). It seems like there are always more skills than skill points.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 03:51:14 AM by lankyogre »

Offline Deadmanwalking

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 03:58:03 AM »
Those both actually look really good, though on the first, I'd note that Fast Reload isn't really worth it, and you're forgetting the +2 Refresh for being Pure Mortal (at least in your notations).

I might also modify the second one's skills in raven form a bit more to get your full value out of Beast Change. And possaibly pick up Claws (for a sharp beak) if you intend to fight in that form.

Offline luminos

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1234
  • Um... Hello?
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 04:08:15 AM »
I think you can make a lot of improvements to both characters

The pure mortal is statted up pretty well, but he well get trashed in social combat, which is fine, but you still need to be aware of it.  In fact, it wouldn't hurt to have an aspect representing social ineptitude so that you can get compelled to lose conflicts that you would lose anyways due to low skills.  This character has way too many stunts that taken together, don't really represent a -8 character.  You can modify some of the stunts, and cut a lot of them out, and have a much more effective character.  Lethal Weapon, for instance, isn't a good stunt to have.  This character is much more optimized when using guns, fists should at best be a fall back method, and spending refresh on a fall back method is not optimal.  Fast reload and quick-draw artist are both weak stunts to begin with, so don't take either one unless your GM loves to declare that you have to reload a lot/draw your gun a lot.  I'd recommend dropping sniper, or perhaps changing it to do something else (using guns for ambush skill when sniping a certain number of zones away, for instance, would be a good use for this skill).

The were-raven needs a lot of work on the skill pyramids.  The normal skill pyramids for the human form and the raven form are almost identical, which reduces one of the most potent advantages of shapeshifters.  Of course, maybe your character concept requires this similarity, but I'd still recommend making the shuffling of skills a little more pronounced.

Also, the refresh calculations for both of these characters is off for a submerged game.
Lawful Chaotic

Offline Deadmanwalking

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 04:22:24 AM »
Ooh, he's got Quick Draw Artist? I missed that. Yeah, you should definitely drop that too. Lethal Weapon I can see, for a Pure Mortal a single Stunt backing up his secondary attack isn't so bad. luminos is right on social combat, though. He doesn't have a single defensive skill for it.

And how is the Were-raven's off? He has 2 Mortal Stunts and 6 Refresh of powers. That leave 2 left, right? Though looking at it he could (for free) keep the Inhuman Speed in human form if he wanted.

Offline lankyogre

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 04:32:59 AM »
In regards to the Hitman. I'm extremely used to other systems where you pick from a list, and I was having a lot of trouble coming up with a group of stunts that worked together, but didn't overstack too much. So, I ended up just picking from what I could find in OW and YS. In regards to the lethal weapon skill, I wanted to have a reliable back up, and figured one refresh out of 12 wasn't too bad. I haven't figured out a format that I like for posting characters online, so I forgot to include the extra 2 refresh for pure mortal on the sheet. I'm playing online, so I have no idea what the GM is like. What kind of stunts would you suggest?


The way I count the were-raven; 2 stunts and 7 refresh from powers, +1 for human form leaves me with 2 refresh left over. In raven form I was thinking of frequently going mostly for observation and possibly minor thievery/snatch & grab, mostly information gathering so therefore high alertness, deceit, burglary, stealth as a raven. What about

Superb: Deceit, Alertness
Great: Stealth, Survival
Good: Investigation, Athletics
Fair: Fists, Endurance, Presence
Average: Rapport, Intimidation, Burglary, Resources, Driving


I guess, even though I "could" keep supernatural powers in human form for free, I feel it fits better not to. Though i guess I could see it both ways.

Offline luminos

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1234
  • Um... Hello?
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 04:37:47 AM »
Oops, missed the ravens stunts.

I'd totally recommend something that lets the gun character use his guns skill for ambushes under certain circumstances (like the alternate sniper stunt I mentioned ealier). 
Lawful Chaotic

Offline Mal_Luck

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1381
  • The Trope Master
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 09:23:03 AM »
A stunt that allows you to use Guns for dodging might also be appropriate, it would let you lower Great Athletics for something else.
DV Mal_Luck v1.2 YR3 FR1 BK++++ RP++++ JB TH(+++) WG(-) CL SW(+) BC(++) MC(--) SH [Molly+++ Murphy++]

Offline lankyogre

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 10:26:32 PM »
So how does the raven skill tree look?

For the hitman, what about these stunts? I'm still trying to work on catchy names.


Sniper
Alertness
On My Toes: Gain +2 to Alertness when using it to determine initiative.
Fists
Lethal Weapons:
Your hands are lethal weapons. When using Fists to strike an unarmored opponent, you are considered to have Weapon:2. Against opponents with Armor:1, your Fists attacks are Weapon:1. There is no benefit against more heavily armored opponents.
Guns
Pin Them Down: When Aiming, the aspect you place on the target cannot be removed so long as they do not move out of the zone, and any attempts to leave the zone face an increased border of 1 as long as you continue to make Guns attacks against that target.
Shoot And Move: When using small firearms (handguns, submachine guns, etc), penalties to rolls due to moving are reduced by up to two.
Target Rich Environment: Gain a +1 to attacks with Guns whenever personally outnumbered in a firefight.

Sniper When shooting at a target more than 2 zones away, use Guns instead of Stealth for Ambush trapping.
Precise Shot When shooting at a target in a different zone, gain a +1 on attacks with Guns.
Headshot When using Guns to attack from an ambush, add one to the weapons rating.

And a little bit or reworking on his skills to make him do what he is supposed to. Apparently a few skills don't do what I thought they did.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 12:47:42 AM by lankyogre »

Offline lankyogre

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 12:56:55 AM »
Which would be better for the were raven:

Human
Superb (+5): Deceit
Great (+4): Investigation, Athletics
Good (+3): Burglary, Stealth, Presence
Fair (+2): Driving, Fists, Guns, Alertness
Average (+1): Resources, Survival, Endurance, Intimidation, Rapport

Raven
Superb: Deceit, Alertness
Great: Stealth, Survival
Good: Investigation, Athletics
Fair: Fists, Endurance, Presence
Average: Rapport, Intimidation, Burglary, Resources, Driving

or something where my human skills are pretty different like this?

Human
Great: Deceit, Fists, Rapport,
Good: Athletics, Driving, Presence
Fair: Burglary, Endurance, Investigation, Intimidation
Average: Alertness, Conviction, Guns, Lore, Resources, Stealth

Raven
Superb: Deceit (with the restriction "can only use Distraction & Misdirection trapping"), Alertness
Great: Stealth, Survival
Good: Investigation, Athletics
Fair: Fists, Endurance, Presence
Average: Rapport, Intimidation, Burglary, Resources, Driving

Offline Deadmanwalking

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2010, 08:47:43 AM »
Second Character:

Depends on what you're going for, character-wise. Though, mechanically speaking, the second is a much better use of Beast Change. And in either, swapping Survival and Athletics on the Raven Form would be highly reccomended by me personally.

First Character:

Precise Shot and Target Rich Environment don't stack, so pick one and drop the other.

Headshot isn't powerful enough. It's a limited enough use that it should really give a +2 to damage.

Personally, I'd drop Athletics to Fair, drop Weapons entirely, up Fists to Great or even Superb and grab Footwork and Armed Arts (Knife, Baton). That'd leave you skills free to grab Stealth (you could then drop Sniper). That'd result in the same number of Stunts and a more effective and deadly character and skill pyramid. Maybe something like this (going for the very highest Stealth and Fists emphasis):

Superb (+5)  Fists, Guns,
Great (+4)    Alertness, Stealth
Good (+3)    Discipline, Endurance,
Fair (+2)      Athletics, Conviction, Driving,
Average (+1) Contacts, Intimidation, Investigation, Lore, Presence

Offline lankyogre

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 12:01:03 PM »
Thank you for the advice Deadmanwalking. I vote that we create a new forum title for you. Something like "Rules Guru" or "Knight of the Books"  ;D

Offline CMEast

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2010, 06:10:44 PM »
I've had a thought (yes it happens! :P) and rather than start a whole new thread I thought I'd borrow this one seeing as it seems to have come to a natural conclusion.

Would a character with Mythic Recovery and Channelling or Evocation be totally broken? Imagine your character has high conviction, discipline and lore, then add in a nice focus item to summon up or control more power too. Each shift over your conviction will cause stress so lets say you try to cast a... 14 shift spell. Take a mild and moderate consequence, an extra mild if you can get high enough conviction. Then to control the spell you suffer backlash and take the extreme consequence, it hurt but you cast the spell.

Now everyone is dead because it was a weapon:12 spell, hitting the entire zone, at a targeting roll of discipline, plus focus item, plus aspects or whatever.

Next scene and all consequences and stress have gone because of mythic recovery.

With the right catch for recovery you could do this at up-to-your-waist level.

I don't plan on using it and, of course, anyone that did is relying on that one super spell but even so, I'm curious. Does this work?

Offline luminos

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1234
  • Um... Hello?
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 06:16:55 PM »
Nice try, but even if your GM was crazy enough to let you play a character with mythic anything, it still only effects recovery from physical consequences.

Also, the extreme consequence will last one scene longer than the other consequences.
Lawful Chaotic

Offline CMEast

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2010, 06:21:26 PM »
Aha, I knew I was missing something! The backlash could be taken as physical but the mental stress for summoning that power would always result in a mental consequence. Thanks :)

Of course, with discipline of 5, evocation specialising in control and a lore of 4 to give a +4 to offensive control in the same element, you could get a control roll of 10. Add on an aspect or two and it's just the backlash you'd suffer which could just be physical.

Though as you say, it'd take an insane GM to let you play that character :)

Offline SaintAndSinner

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 176
  • Dresden Files Playtester (Bleeding Alpha)
    • View Profile
    • A Saint And A Sinner
Re: Advice on characters
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 06:25:29 PM »
Maybe add a Guns stunt to allow Intimidation if brandishing a gun?
"Before you speak, it is necessary for you to listen, for God speaks in the silence of the heart."
Blessed Mother Teresa, Ora Pro Nobis