Modified Skills and Supernatural Power

[ahunting]

 I really like the system, and I'm certainly not going to change how we have been playing. When we looked at it, we came to the conclusion we reached b/c we felt it was the only logical way to interpret the rules. We neglected to bother to check all our sources clearly, but given how testing kept coming out, it was the only logical interpretation we could find. The math still seems very clean, Focused Partitioner with super refinement guy comes up only one shift difference then mythic strength and item of power guy, under our method, he'd be epicly bad the other way. (Yes so the testing naming scheme is a little lame).

I'd never nerf one thing in a system when i could buff everything else instead.

[Deadmanwalking]

The Strength guy's really not that badly off the other way if everything is taken into account. Still, just looking at the numbers, I do understand what you're referring to.

[luminos]

wait, I'm missing part of the conversation.  What is his house rule for magic?

[Deadmanwalking]

wait, I'm missing part of the conversation.  What is his house rule for magic?

No House Rule for magic...but his House Rules combine to make fights shorter...like under four rounds short. Which makes magic much cooler, kinda by definition.

Also, there's the "whenever someone spends a Fate Point, the person they're spending it against gets it" House Rule...which makes anybody with a really high Defense (like a lot of magic users) net alot of FP since that's the only way to hit them.

[ahunting]

To be fair fate changes hands real fast in our fights. Losing tends to be very profitable in terms of fate. But winning tends to be very expensive. Self compelling is very popular, we get into a lot of trouble, mostly with very little help from the GM.  We probably could have a whole session with no combat but what we bring upon ourselves, and it might be far more dangerous then anything the plot would have put in front of us.

[JosephKell]

To be fair fate changes hands real fast in our fights. Losing tends to be very profitable in terms of fate. But winning tends to be very expensive. Self compelling is very popular, we get into a lot of trouble, mostly with very little help from the GM.  We probably could have a whole session with no combat but what we bring upon ourselves, and it might be far more dangerous then anything the plot would have put in front of us.

To be honest, fate points aren't about fair.  That takes away the whole point of fate points: to come through in a clinch (a.k.a. not be fair to the npcs).

Fate points are mostly for players to help direct the game (and to make it up to players that take fewer powers/stunts).  In this case, using fate points directly on an enemy is retarded unless you are going for overkill to ensure they don't live long enough to spend them back at you.  I.e. magic is bad ass because you have no reason to not spend fate points to ensure your 7 Shift attack spell lands with 5 shifts of effect for a 12 physical stress attack.  Not to meant that a four round combat means you rarely run out of mental stress track for casting spells.

Way to make magic even better and pure mortals worse.  *thumbs up*

You basically gave every bad guy an aspect of "I hate when fate points get spent against me."  Summary: dumb house rule.

[Deadmanwalking]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dumb'. I can see it being fun in it's own way, though I must admit that it does screw over Pure Mortals quite a bit.

What it is is such a fundamental change in both the game an style that any rules discussion comparing the variant to normal DFRPG is going to be completely useless, and somewhat annoying for everyone involved since the basic context they're operating from is so utterly different.

[JosephKell]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dumb'.

I am pretty sure it is "dumb."  The whole point of playing the Fate system is to use Fate Points.  It is right there in the name.  But this house rule makes it disadvantageous to use fate points (for the most part).

It takes away the whole reason to play a Fate system game.  Ergo: dumb house rule.

It is like playing Exalted without motes of essence.
Or D&D4e without powers, action points, miniatures, and a grid (and "No, I don't want to hear about someone's '1337' home group does without any or all of those things").
Or Bang! without the Sheriff's Badge (okay, the badge isn't necessary but it is hilarious to see a grown man wearing a plastic sheriff's badge).

Taking away the core mechanic (which this does by making fate points so tactically bad it is pointless) just raises the question of "why use this game for this setting."

There are other systems that can be used for a DF style game.

Without fate points, Average (and sometimes Fair) skills are useless to the point of not righting them down (unless they give static bonuses, like an extra stress box).

[ahunting]

To be honest, fate points aren't about fair.  That takes away the whole point of fate points: to come through in a clinch (a.k.a. not be fair to the npcs).

Fate points are mostly for players to help direct the game (and to make it up to players that take fewer powers/stunts).  In this case, using fate points directly on an enemy is retarded unless you are going for overkill to ensure they don't live long enough to spend them back at you.  I.e. magic is bad ass because you have no reason to not spend fate points to ensure your 7 Shift attack spell lands with 5 shifts of effect for a 12 physical stress attack.  Not to meant that a four round combat means you rarely run out of mental stress track for casting spells.

Way to make magic even better and pure mortals worse.  *thumbs up*

You basically gave every bad guy an aspect of "I hate when fate points get spent against me."  Summary: dumb house rule.

I personally feel they are there to add drama, Its very amusing being compelled by your own party to do something silly. My trouble gets compelled all the time by the party, to get my poor character shot by snipers. We seriously consider switching an aspect to F%&#ing Sniper Rifle.  

One of our players drives a taxi, and we compel him to show up a just the right time with his Cab all the time.

Another of our player is denarian with shepherd the weak as an aspect so there he is doing something middle evil and suddenly gets compelled to save someone in the scene, its really very funny.
 
Honestly I don't care a wit if you like our methods or not, we have fun and that is the point of the game.

[ahunting]

But this house rule makes it disadvantageous to use fate points (for the most part).

It has never stop anyone from spending fate points, that much i promise you.

[ahunting]

I am pretty sure it is "dumb."  The whole point of playing the Fate system is to use Fate Points.  It is right there in the name.  But this house rule makes it disadvantageous to use fate points (for the most part).

It takes away the whole reason to play a Fate system game.  Ergo: dumb house rule.

It is like playing Exalted without motes of essence.
Or D&D4e without powers, action points, miniatures, and a grid (and "No, I don't want to hear about someone's '1337' home group does without any or all of those things").
Or Bang! without the Sheriff's Badge (okay, the badge isn't necessary but it is hilarious to see a grown man wearing a plastic sheriff's badge).

Taking away the core mechanic (which this does by making fate points so tactically bad it is pointless) just raises the question of "why use this game for this setting."

There are other systems that can be used for a DF style game.

Without fate points, Average (and sometimes Fair) skills are useless to the point of not righting them down (unless they give static bonuses, like an extra stress box).

Eh I stopped being 1337 after i quit raiding

[KOFFEYKID]

Personally, I wouldn't play with those house rules, as, like has been mentioned before, you exacerbate the very problem you are complaining about because of them (more powerful wizards).

Consider that a wizard only has maybe one or two fate points to spend per session. A pure mortal might have 4 or 5, even more. The pure mortal in your system is screwed (he spends 5 fate points, then gets hit by five since you just tossed em over to the bad guys). The wizard, however, doesn't need fate points (the thing that is supposed to balance high refresh templates against low refresh templates), he can just shoot out his overly optimized 12 shift evocations each round and tear it all up.

Thats why you think everything is weak compared to wizard, because in your system, you are completely correct. Everybody who is not a Adjusted Refresh 1 Wizard is going to suck.

[GruffAndTumble]

If they're having fun, the House Rule is an awesome idea--for their table. From a ownership-neutral standpoint, yes, the House Rule is a major balance issue. But ahunting's group is having fun, and so I think the rule can be said to be serving its purpose.