Taking Social Consequences as Backlash?

[Ophidimancer]

Of course, those would be Consequences, and not Stress.

[luminos]

why not have that still happen, and take a physical/mental consequence to that effect?  You get the result you are aiming for, and don't lose game balance from it.

[Ophidimancer]

why not have that still happen, and take a physical/mental consequence to that effect?  You get the result you are aiming for, and don't lose game balance from it.

But then wouldn't it be a double whammy?  You'd take a Physical Consequence that would also act as a Social Consequence.

[wyvern]

But then wouldn't it be a double whammy?  You'd take a Physical Consequence that would also act as a Social Consequence.

Can you tell me when that would matter?  A consequence is a consequence - a negative aspect that people can tag against you.  Doesn't matter what type it is, really; if you show up to a ballroom dance with sprained ankle, you can bet somebody (the GM, at least, if not any given NPC) is going to invoke that against you.

The only differences are extra slots from high endurance / conviction / presence (and stunts), and the various recovery powers.  So I don't see any particular flaw with taking "glowing eyes" as a physical consequence, and then having someone tag it against you in a social context.  (Though, of course, as a physical consequence, there would need to be some actual effect in combat, too - for example, maybe you can't see that well when your eyes are glowing.)

[Ophidimancer]

Can you tell me when that would matter?  A consequence is a consequence

Ahh, true.  I guess this would only make a difference concerning Stress.

[CMEast]

Lets see how it would affect a game...

I think the only person it'd be relevant for would be, as has been said earlier, a wizard with a really high presence. You'd only ever spend that many skill points if you plan to get in to a lot of social conflicts as otherwise it'd be a waste. Having high Discipline, high conviction and high presence (+5 presence required minimum), plus quite probably a high social attack skill too, almost guarantees you'd be weak in a physical conflict. Taking a social consequence WOULD have an affect on that PCs game.

If you're concerned that social stress doesn't matter enough in a physical conflict then simply rule that the backlash stress only hits the physical or mental stress track, but that consequences may be social if it makes narrative sense. It's not as if consequences are limited in use anyway. A broken nose or dislocated jaw might be physical but they could certainly be compelled in a social conflict; a sudden fear of heights might be a mental consequence but that could affect a physical conflict on a roof top, and a social consequence like 'deep humiliation' could be tagged in a mental conflict with the person that embarrassed them.

I say, if someone has invested heavily in social skills (which is rare anyway) they should be allowed to take advantage of them... in fact they should probably be rewarded for not making another 'let's-see-how-hard-I-can-hit' character (oh so I see you've max'ed out lore and given yourself focuses in creating items and refinements for extra items... but you don't plan on making anything. Again.)

[Ophidimancer]

Hmm ... why does everyone assume that social heavy characters are rare?

[Nomad]

I think it is usable in a social (or undercover) situation but in an all out fight scene it might be an abusable  free pass. To stop that abuse, you might want to rule that it goes away after the first social scene instead of at the end of the action scene where it was acquired.

Eq: Our suave hero "Butch"  has a nasty encounter with another batch of constructs his friends have been encountering all over the town. However, during the fight he took a lot of small consequences, which eventually leaked over to his normally strong social side (assume he has an extra mild consequence in social)...
Now as our hero is on his way to meet his friends, he gets pulled over by cops in a routine alcohol checkpoint. Unfortunately his clothing is a bit off and he smells a bit "something funny".

"Please get out of the car, sir"

[CMEast]

Hmm ... why does everyone assume that social heavy characters are rare?

Well almost every power is designed for use in physical conflict, people like to play supernatural characters and so those that specialise tend to invest their skills in ways that compliment the refresh spent. If four out of five players are combat orientated or generally good at all things, the GM will normally tailor the story to suit; hence most adventures being skewed towards physical conflict. I'd enjoy playing a game that leans towards social conflict but if I'm going to be in a hack'n'slash style game then I'll probably play a character that can at least defend himself ok, which means I can't afford to put all of my points in social skills.

It's a shame but that's how it works.

[Nomad]

Actually I love players (munchkins) who go for unbalanced physical only characters. I just dump them into confrontations with police, gendarmerie, old people. Social gatherings work well too.

Fate is actually a very unforgiving game (compared to things like DnD and Wolf). You have to have social attacks and defences as well as physical (... and mental defences too. Not too many char types have mental attacks. but the ones that have mental attacks are really deadly) In this system a severe  social attack or three can cripple any socially insecure character, making them useless in a fight.

[Ophidimancer]

Well almost every power is designed for use in physical conflict, people like to play supernatural characters and so those that specialise tend to invest their skills in ways that compliment the refresh spent. If four out of five players are combat orientated or generally good at all things, the GM will normally tailor the story to suit; hence most adventures being skewed towards physical conflict. I'd enjoy playing a game that leans towards social conflict but if I'm going to be in a hack'n'slash style game then I'll probably play a character that can at least defend himself ok, which means I can't afford to put all of my points in social skills.

It's a shame but that's how it works.

Can't you take someone out with social combat same as with physical combat?

[Nomad]

Short aswer? No
Long Aswer? You can "drive" him off from the scene if it is possible

[Ophidimancer]

So, basically you can win a conflict with social attacks just the same as you can with physical attacks.  It might not necessarily mean you kill them, but you can still overcome them in a conflict.

[Nomad]

Yup, Remember this scene;

I took the opportunity to take a few long breaths, calming myself down. I finally looked back at them. “Okay,” I asked. “Who are they? The victims.”
“You don’t need to know that,” Carmichael snapped.
“Ron,” Murphy said. “I could really use some coffee.”
Carmichael turned to her. He wasn’t tall, but he all but loomed over Murphy. “Aw, come on, Murph. This guy’s jerking your chain. You don’t really think he’s going to be able to tell you anything worth hearing, do you?”
Murphy regarded her partner’s sweaty, beady-eyed face with a sort of frosty hauteur, tough to pull off on someone six inches taller than she. “No cream, two sugars.”
“Dammit,” Carmichael said. He shot me a cold glance (but didn’t quite look at my eyes), then jammed his hands into his pants pockets and stalked out of the room.

it is a perfect example (assuming Carmichael is an NPC and Murph is PC)

[Ophidimancer]

So social heavy characters are basically just as powerful as physical heavy characters, just in a different way.