Is a Pure Mortal viable?

[ahunting]

Character Name:Johnny "Round Eye"
High Concept: Top Gun in Shanghai
Trouble: Staying On Top
Aspects:
Colt Made them Equal, Ace Marksmen, Can't Walk Away From a Job,
Beware the Deadman Hand, Somethings are Sacred, Including Sinatra.

Skills: (35)
5 Guns
4 Contacts, Presence, Resources
3 Endurance, Investigation, Conviction
2 Fists, Athletics, Drive
1 Rapport, Crafts, Lore

Stunts:  (12 refresh 10 stunts)
Colt made them Equal (See Way of the AK)(+1 to Guns with Colt designed Weapons)
Target Rich Environment
Shot on the Run
Fast Reload
Rain of Lead
Quick Draw
Lightening Hands
Snap Shot
Two Gun Joe
No Pain No gain
Fiery Orator
Teflon Persona

So yes if there are two of the enemy and he's using his standard guns this guy has an effective Guns of 7, and can use guns to defend, he can also use guns to determine initiative, and spend fate to pre-empt and another initiative to get a free action. He also can draw reload at no penalty etc etc. Also he make presence attack and defenses at skill 6, and armor 1 against social attacks.

Equipment:
Armor 2 (Could get armor 3 if you don't roll to bad)
2 Grizzly Mark V (Weapon 3) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAR_Grizzly_Win_Mag)
Extra Clips.
Hand tailored Suit.
2010 Porsche 911.

(Yeah the pistol things kinda a stretch the 1911 was originally a browning model but ya know, the logic holds)

But thats about 20 mins of thought and a little googling, if ya put some real time into it, I'm sure you can make something better, but believe me Mortal is Viable.

[Deadmanwalking]

Stunts granting direct bonuses don't stack by defaul, so it's really only Guns 6 without powers. Presence also can't be used as a conventional defense, only as a Block.

Still, the basic principles are sound. Pure Mortals are quite capable of being frightening.

[ahunting]

Stunts granting direct bonuses don't stack by defaul, so it's really only Guns 6 without powers. Presence also can't be used as a conventional defense, only as a Block.

Still, the basic principles are sound. Pure Mortals are quite capable of being frightening.

On the presence thing its listed in the book see YS page 380. /shrug
As to the stacking part, is there page number for that? Its not discussed anywhere that I can find.
In most game situational bonuses will apply if the situations in question applies.

[Deadmanwalking]

On the presence thing its listed in the book see YS page 380. /shrug

It lists Attacks and Blocks. A Block and a defense are NOT the same thing. To start with a Block takes your standard action to do and applies to a specific person, as a rule.

As to the stacking part, is there page number for that? Its not discussed anywhere that I can find.

YS p. 148, first column, bottom paragraph. In italics.

In most game situational bonuses will apply if the situations in question applies.

Not going by the rules. And there are good balance reasons for that.

[ahunting]

Ok that's all fair on the first two points. I agree. The rules do leave it open just at a "reduced" level on the third. So poor Johnny will just have to find another way to get that 2nd +1. 

[Victim]

Stunts tend to be a situational +2.  Fate Points, when spent, are also +2 if you have an aspect.  So unless you plan on using your Stunt more than once per session, probably don't have any aspect that applies (in which case you might want to rethink your stunt purchase), or will need the Stunt AND an invoked aspect to be effective, then buying Stunts is not a good idea.  Just use the Fate Point instead; a flexible +2 is better than a fixed +2.  Don't go crazy on stunts to just spend that refresh - just because you want a master gunslinger doesn't mean you need all the guns stunts. 

Strategic use of Fate points is the most important part of having a huge net refresh.  Scene Aspects can be much more useful for you than other people - anyone can get a tag on something, but most other characters can't really afford to repeatedly invoke things.  Same thing for maneuvers.  Especially when Compel or Invoke for Effect instead for a bonus/reroll, which generally can't be done via tag.  As part of a group, you can compel your friends' aspects to transfer Fate Points to them, or invoke their aspects when they need a bonus.  Compelling over invoking stuff for them is useful for giving them the ammo to resist other compels.  Remember that Aspects, whether via maneuver, inherent, or consequences, basically just sit there unless someone spends a Fate Point to make them real.  If you have a lot of Fate Points, you get to decide what's actually important.  Emphasizing this part of the game in your character puts your guy in a more support role, but it does focus on the unique advantages to being a pure mortal that most other characters aren't going to have.

Note that huge guns, "sticky" aspects as part of equipment (rather dubious mechanically, IMO), etc don't especially help pure mortal characters - they don't have a monopoly on the use of stuff.  Sure, you can make a Pure mortal Gunslinger with 10 points of stunts.  OTOH, you could also be a Changeling and do the same things - but probably a lot more efficiently, since stunts aren't as good as powers.  There's a part Sylph assassin in our game (as an NPC) with Superb Guns as well, but she has enough Speed to go Matrix where mortals go John Woo.  Plus Wings (Flight + ranged attacks vs so many melee primary monsters = ) and stuff. 

Many powers don't provide advantages to more mental or social challenges - and non combat powers are often dependent on mundane skills to work.  Powered characters can have those skills, yes.  However, in terms of comparative advantage, mortal characters are often better off specializing in those areas.

And hitting monsters with a car is a pretty nice equalizer.

[Ravangames]

I will agree a high level mortal can hang with most things, what about a "foot in the water" mortal?

How well can one deal with supernatural nasties?

Sure a group of 4-5 mortals can take down a RCV, what what about 1 on 1?

[Deadmanwalking]

Victim: What you say is true to an extent, but Skill Replacement stunts are almost always worth it (unless the skill you're replacing with another is already really high), and ones that give fairly common +1s to combat skills are eminently worth it if you're going to be making more than 5 or so attacks a session (which combat oriented characters will usually do).

Ravangames: One on one? They'll tend to die vs. Ghouls, Vampires, and most other serious supernatural monsters (as listed in the book anyhow) unless really combat optimized. But that's true of any character at Feet Wet, not just the Pure Mortals. This also depends alot on how prepared they are, as well as how combat oriented they are in general.

[ahunting]

I appreciate what your saying on the topic of stunt +2 vs stunt add Victim . The math on that is pretty clear. Its possible to build stunts that do +3 to specific trapping for a fate points. I haven't made up one yet but its within the rules. My gunslinger designed was whipped up real quick just to show you can make a pretty BA mortal at fully submerged that could certainly dance with the best of them. The guns were put in b/c I just wanted something different from Desert Eagles. (Which seems to be the only hand Cannon people can find.)

Stunt Effect is certainly all about shifting around trappings, that example used guns for just about everything to do with combat, Initiative, attack and defense. It also used stunts from SoTC which a GM might very well not allow to transfer over. (I'm speaking of the interrupt stunt specifically.)

I'm sure there are better mortal build out there, but I'm still reasonably happy with it. A couple changes and i might play something similar to it someday.

Now on the low powered game, in the end this system centers around the Average. Dice should come up average, so what determines if you gonna win our not is what defense and offense skill are relative to what your fighting. If your skill limit puts you 2 level or more below what your fighting, your gonna lose, without a great deal of party support to keep enough aspects up on it. At 1 below to 1 above its an open field It depends on what else you have going on.

Team work is important, aspects can and should make or break a fight. But your table has to be both familiar with the system to make that happen, and be prepared cooperate as a team.  There so much stuff that can be done in this system using blocks and aspects, you can punch well out side your refresh weight class if your group is smart.  But if your group is new, or is not a bunch of team players, its not hard to get knocked out real quick.

[Nomad]

Deagles are actually quite useless weapons. They are too heavy (both in recoil and weight) and just on par with revolvers in shot numbers.

If you are that stuck on big pistols get a:

 or something similar. Thats a Ruger Alaskan in .454 casull (3rd largest pistol cartridge in production) btw.


Or simply don't be an idiot and get a sturdy 9mm and some speciality ammo like steel, hollow point, light load, home defence rounds with beads of things like garlic oil, rock salt, silver nitrate, holy/blessed water and such.
Quiter (due to subsonic rounds), more controllable, rapid firing and still deadly.

[Jeckel]

Because it seems appropriate to continue with the trio:

By any chance have you gotten around to stating up Fiona Glenanne?

[JosephKell]

Pure mortals don't need fancy guns to be effective (they do help though).

I played in a game yesterday as a pure mortal and I didn't use a gun once (in fact, having a gun for the majority of the scenario would've been bad when we were picked up by the cops).

In fact, cars are superior weapons to guns.  You have doors, front and rear bumpers...

In some ways Pure Mortals are more capable than any other character (except maybe thaumaturgists).  Many supernatural characters start to spend all their refresh on combat (exception is a few psychic powers).  Mortals have more refresh, so more fate points.  After sitting at a table that had guys who start at 1 or 2 points and being a guy with 5, I was spending points without really worrying about it while other guys had to pinch their own.

[Jeckel]

I agree about mortals and about the fate points in general. It has taken me several sessions to get the importance of fate points across to my players as out of the starting 10 refresh the lowest that was spent was 7. Since most of them didn't have many points to use in-game (coming from other systems, we were all conditioned to spend every point you are given) I started giving 2 fate points above their refresh rate at the beginning of each session with the requirement that they had to spend those two points before the session was done. The simple fact of having something that would be lost if they didn't use it kinda pushed them into some interesting ways to use the points (I've got them through Invokes and Declarations, but haven't got them using assessments yet). Heck there were a few times that I had to stop rp and figure out the results of the inventive stuff they came up with.

After realizing how useful they are, I allowed a few players to rework their characters a bit to give them more refresh and each of them is using at least 1, and sometimes all, of their fate each session now. Having got the hang of it I don't give the "free" fate points at the beginning of the session and after the last milestone that raised the refresh by a point, none of them bought new powers or stunts, fully planning to get their fate pools bigger.

[ahunting]

I agree that cars are very effective weapons, however along that line of thinking i feel it should also be pointed out, cars while mobile are not very portable.  Most fights in our games seem to take place in buildings, the never-never, the capital, dark allies, or the subway. All locations that are very difficult to bring your car into. Also I suspect somewhere along those lines a GM who get sick of seeing his Big bad, Road Pizza'd for the 2nd time, is going look up what happens when a Car runs into a moose or other large critter. Modern safety features are very good, but there only do so much.
 

[Belial666]

How about this:

"Way of the Hand Cannon"  (+1 guns with any sidearm of .50 caliber or higher)
"Dual Wield" (for guns, not weapons)
"Quick Aim" (you may aim as a supplemental action)
"Deadeye Shot" (if you hit in an aimed shot, you may ignore up to 2 armor)


So you can go in dual-wielding Desert Eagles that can down a ghoul in a single shot.