Player Concept - Changeling Ogre (my players please stay out)

[theDwarf]

I have a question for people ... what do people think of a character in a Feet in the Water game playing a Changeling Ogre with the

(click to show/hide)

-8 Physical Immunity with the +5 Catch Stack (Mortal? Magic Only)?

powers listed in the OW book?

(I did spoiler so players glancing here don't automatically see what Ogres get )

[luminos]

I'm hesitant about letting players get physical immunity, but sure, why not.

[CMEast]

I don't see a problem with it to be honest, magic users can find a way around it easily enough and while there are plenty of magic-using bad guys, many of them are more combat orientated and so the physical immunity won't count.

Yeah, why not.

[theDwarf]

One of my concerns was a -8 point power (prior to Catches) in a 6 point "Feet Wet" game.  haven't found any limiter yet, but was not certain if they existed.

[Deadmanwalking]

They don't. And it's legitimately only worth the -3 it costs, since it protects against nothing but magic. Heck, every Pure Mortal ever ignores it entirely, and even mages can work around it by throwing cars at them telekinetically or other such things.

Honestly, were I the player of such a character, I'd grab Inhuman Strength, Toughness, and Recovery instead. Same -3 with the Cold Iron Catch and likely more useful.

[Drachasor]

Hmm, catch rules would say this is a fully -6, I think

Mortal Magic Only is +2.
Easy to come by a counter?  Heck yes, everyone can bypass it with their fists or anything else (guns, swords, etc).
Easy to research?  Yeah.  Heck, you might not even realize he is immune to magic unless that's the first thing you try, and ogres being resistant to magic is rather well known.

The only odd thing about this guy is that he isn't particularly vulnerable to iron and a changeling should be.

[GruffAndTumble]

Hmm, catch rules would say this is a fully -6, I think

Mortal Magic Only is +2.
Easy to come by a counter?  Heck yes, everyone can bypass it with their fists or anything else (guns, swords, etc).
Easy to research?  Yeah.  Heck, you might not even realize he is immune to magic unless that's the first thing you try, and ogres being resistant to magic is rather well known.

The only odd thing about this guy is that he isn't particularly vulnerable to iron and a changeling should be.

Changelings are no more vulnerable to iron than humans, they simply can't become invulnerable to iron.

[Drachasor]

Changelings are no more vulnerable to iron than humans, they simply can't become invulnerable to iron.

Point.  I meant his toughness only being to magical stuff and not being tough against physical attacks is a bit odd for an ogre.

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmm, catch rules would say this is a fully -6, I think

Mortal Magic Only is +2.
Easy to come by a counter?  Heck yes, everyone can bypass it with their fists or anything else (guns, swords, etc).
Easy to research?  Yeah.  Heck, you might not even realize he is immune to magic unless that's the first thing you try, and ogres being resistant to magic is rather well known.

The only odd thing about this guy is that he isn't particularly vulnerable to iron and a changeling should be.

See, you're misinterpretting the Research portion. It needs to not only be easy to research, but actually something a large number of people know off the top of their head to be +2 (and thus +6 total) which is untrue of Ogres. Harry, for example, had no idea they were immune to magic until he tried it on one.

Re-read p. 185, if you need to do actual reading and not just ask people in the know about the supernatural, it's a +1.

[Drachasor]

See, you're misinterpretting the Research portion. It needs to not only be easy to research, but actually something a large number of people know off the top of their head to be +2 (and thus +6 total) which is untrue of Ogres. Harry, for example, had no idea they were immune to magic until he tried it on one.

Re-read p. 185, if you need to do actual reading and not just ask people in the know about the supernatural, it's a +1.

Research is figuring out how to bypass the catch, not what it is per se.  I think being vulnerable to swords and bullets is well-within the bounds of common knowledge.

Though, maybe the better way to read it would be "what magic bypasses the immunity?"  The rules are a little unclear regarding how to handle the "only immune to one thing" bit.

I would saying being immune to all magic for just 2 refresh is pretty crazy-powerful.

[GruffAndTumble]

An Ogre's immunity reverse engineers as follows.

--Base Refresh Cost for Physical Immunity is -8.
--Having a Toughness power that only applies to one thing provides a +2 bonus to the Catch. Refresh cost becomes -6.
--The "Catch" in this case is everything the ogre is not immune to. This means it falls under the "not a rare material or attack" type of catch, for +2 Catch again. Generally speaking, if you are only immune to one thing, this is going to be where your Catch is, as a minimum reduction.
--Finally, knowing what not to attack an Ogre with is neither in the common sphere of folkloric knowledge, to the degree that garlic for vampires or similar things would be. However, it is certainly something you can find out without having ever seen an Ogre, much less fought one, so it is neither a +2 or a +0 for research purposes. Therefore, add +1 to the Catch, for a total of +5.

Therefore, an Ogre pays three refresh (8-5) to blow off magic, which, notably, is the same cost as Evocation in the first place. Given that Evocation is useful against a far wider variety of targets than an immunity to magic, one might even be able to argue that the immunity is too expensive. But that is neither here nor there.