lawbreaker in action

[Arcane257]

Alright getting ready to run a campaign and was rereading the lawbreaker stuff and got confused hopefully I can get some other opinions that will help me clear it up.

Ok so lets say you have lawbreaker (1st Law) and you go to zap:

a mortal gang banger with a force effect. How does the bonus work? Is it +1 to the roll? Even if the you (the player or NPC with lawbreaker) has no intention of killing said gang banger if he takes him out? Does the Lawbreaker only get to invoke the bonus if it would in fact be enough to take the poor guy out but only if the player agrees to be killing?

How about if you go to zap a red court vamp? Does your lawbreaker help? from the text I would say no

Slippery Slope. Gain a +1 bonus to any spell-
casting roll whenever using magic in a way
which would break the specified Law of
Magic.


Ok so what happens if the Lawbreaker goes to fry what he thinks is a human if it is instead say a fairy?

From reading the books it seems like Lawbreaker is going to apply no matter what when you attack. Your very essence has been twisted and well lets face it black magic is a lot less intimidating if Cowl suddenly gets a lot weaker because he happens to be zapping a non-human.
 

I feel like I am wrong on this though because in the example of Harry frying the red vamp doesn't include his law breaker stunt bonus... which tends to indicate I am in fact supposed to only be handing out the bonus on magic attacks that are against mortals and have the intent to kill them.


Anyone got some thoughts on this?


ON a side note I am also guessing that its pretty reasonable to compel a player with Law Breaker 1st on the occasional taken out results to make them killing blows to show temptation of black magic. I mean if the player wanted to resist and didn't have the fate point to I would be more than willing to let them go into debt for it... I want to temp them down a darker path not drag them kicking and screaming. 

[Vargo Teras]

I'd say that the target shouldn't matter for the bonus, but the intent should.  If the caster adds in their Lawbreaker bonus, they're making a declaration that they're intending to kill/enthrall/otherwise do what the Law says they shouldn't.  If they want to throw a non-lethal spell, then they can't add in the bonus, and may have to resist a compel to one or another of the aspects their Lawbreaking has twisted.  But I do agree that the bonus should work equally well when applied to a target that wouldn't constitute Lawbreaking; once you've murdered a few dozen people, murdering a White Court Vampire shouldn't make much of a change.

[Sanctaphrax]

You don't get a First Lawbreaker bonus against vampires. You don't get a First Lawbreaker bonus if you aren't aiming to kill.

If casting the spell wouldn't give a normal spellcaster Lawbreaker, no bonus for you.

Such compels might or might not be appropriate depending on the situation. That is to say, don't take away someone's last Refresh point. (I'd actually say not to take their Refresh at all, but that's a style thing.)

[Arcane257]

Hmm I am liking the lawbreaker stunts as the mechanic for representing the draw and twisting effect of dark magic less and less. I think for now I will tell my player interested in playing an accidental law breaker to just represent it in an aspect and call it good.

 thanks for the help

[Belial666]

Depends on what Law is broken, of course. Killing or Transforming or Mindraping are situational. But if you're a Necromancer, Chronomancer or Outsider-Worshipper and all your magic focuses on breaking the laws in some way, then you always get the bonus.

[sinker]

Ooh, Ooh, Shameless self plug!

If you want some ideas for other ways to handle it Arcane, you could check out this thread where we bandied about different ways to represent that. I like the way that I have settled on.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,27475.0.html