Damage vs. Bypass: Expanding the Catch

[DFJunkie]

I’m contemplating a houserule to add potential to the catch.  See, some creatures (Black and Red Vampires are the most common) suffer actual damage from contact with otherwise innocuous substances, such as sunlight and holy water.  Other types of damage simply bypass their supernatural toughness/recovery powers, such as wooden stakes for the Blampires (to the best of my knowledge they are free to handle wood to their cold dead heart’s content.) 

My proposal: if simple physical contact with a normally innocuous substance (such as holy water or sunlight) causes damage, +1 to the value of the catch.  This would also apply to things like cold iron or silver if they cause stress through contact in addition to their usual use (getting turned into weapons). 

[Kordeth]

Nah, taking physical damage from normal contact with otherwise-innocuous substances is already covered as a compel on the critter's high concept. No need to adjust catch costs.

[DFJunkie]

Sorry, I'm not really following that.  A red court vampire chucked into a sunny court yard doesn't have the option to pay a fate point to avoid bursting into flame, it bursts into flame. 

[Kordeth]

Sorry, I'm not really following that.  A red court vampire chucked into a sunny court yard doesn't have the option to pay a fate point to avoid bursting into flame, it bursts into flame. 

It can pay a Fate point to, say, quickly skitter under a nearby parked car before it takes more than a light scorching or crash through a wall on the opposite side of the Courtyard to find some shade, though.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yep, every time a disadvantage of being your type of critter comes up, it's a Compel of your High Concept, even if it's due to a disadvantage like a Catch. Some of them aren't Compels you can buy off, but you always get the Fate Point.

Lycanthropes for example, get a Fate Point every time it's not the full moon and their powers would be useful...that doesn't mean they can just burn a Fate point and use them.

Think of anything that gives back Refresh as making certain kinds of Compels irresistable. That's probably the best way to look at it.

[DFJunkie]

Think of anything that gives back Refresh as making certain kinds of Compels irresistable. That's probably the best way to look at it.

Then this should give Refresh back, since a BCV has no option to avoid taking damage from, say, being immersed in holy water.  The reason I'd say that this catch is worth a little more than others is the way it can be used.  Spraying entire zones with, for instance, acid risks harming your own people.  Dumping massive amounts of holy water around the place does not.  Additionally, a catch that prevents safe handling of some material, rather than simply permits that item to be weaponized for a normal attack is substantially more dangerous.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yep, definite advantage. +1 Refresh worth of advantage? I really don't think so. Stuff that doesn't hurt everyone is also, as a rule, harder to get. You can't just go to the sore to pick up Holy Water like you can Cold Iron.

Also bear in mind the potential of fighting multiple enemies, some with such a Catch and some...not. A black Court Vampire with half a dozen Renfields would all be hurt by acid, only the Black Court by the Holy Water. When fighting two White Court, one each Skavis and Malvora a ring infused with True Hope is only gonna work on one of the two, and be nothing but a bauble to the Malvora.

[DFJunkie]

Holy Water, not so hard to get.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water#Use_and_storage

It's true that things like true love/hope/whatever are too uncommon to be considered for additional reimbursement.  In fact, since there's really no way to do all that much damage with true love (you can't exactly make bullets out of it) I'd say it would almost be worth less as a catch. 

On the other hand I am, as I write this, no more than one block from a Catholic church where I could procure several gallons of holy water quite easily.  Definitely enough to fill a supersoaker.

[Belial666]

And the next vampire that comes over has had the idea to wear a full-body latex catsuit. Which happens to be both waterproof and sunproof.

[Deadmanwalking]

On Holy Water:

Depends on whether any water blessed counts as Holy Water. Personally, I only count it as such if the one blessing it has True Faith powers or possibly other mystical powers and alot of faith.

That covers pretty much every instance of holy water seen in the books, but not everyone has a Faher Forthill to make them Holy Water.

[CableRouter]

Holy Water, not so hard to get.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water#Use_and_storage
On the other hand I am, as I write this, no more than one block from a Catholic church where I could procure several gallons of holy water quite easily.  Definitely enough to fill a supersoaker.

Dresden once had a local priest consecrate a 55 gallon drum of water, I certainly agree that it wouldn't be hard to acquire.  There doesn't seem to be any particular limit other than the need of the clergy performing the rite.  Imagine a group of players opening up on a horde of vampires with a firetruck full of holy water. 

[TheMouse]

Imagine a group of players opening up on a horde of vampires with a firetruck full of holy water. 

There are any number of clever things people could do with the ability to bless holy water. Sprinkler systems and lawn sprinklers spring to mind from things I've seen on television. Water balloons and squirt guns make for portable and concealable items, and you could get them past police as an added bonus.

Blessing a moat or lake could make for a very unpleasant shock.

[Belial666]

Don't you mean 5-gallon drum? 55 gallons is far too much for anyone without inhuman strength to carry.

[Deadmanwalking]

Dresden once had a local priest consecrate a 55 gallon drum of water, I certainly agree that it wouldn't be hard to acquire.  There doesn't seem to be any particular limit other than the need of the clergy performing the rite.  Imagine a group of players opening up on a horde of vampires with a firetruck full of holy water. 

He had Father Forthill do that, yes. We have no evidence of random Priests sans True Faith powers can bless anything effectively at all.

[toturi]

On Holy Water:

Depends on whether any water blessed counts as Holy Water. Personally, I only count it as such if the one blessing it has True Faith powers or possibly other mystical powers and alot of faith.

That covers pretty much every instance of holy water seen in the books, but not everyone has a Faher Forthill to make them Holy Water.

Do the rulebooks or any of the DF fiction books make that distinction? That there's fake (hence no H) holy water?