Tech

[EldritchFire]

Wow...one way or another it's always "Harry's" fault.  lol

Someone mentioned piping and wiring breaking a circle.  I don't believe that's the case though.  If you draw the circle over a surface and there are objects in the path that don't or can't move, drawing the circle over those still completes the circle.  What would break it is the water flowing through the pipes, most likely.  It would be complicated, but it could be possible to fashion a ring around the pipe that acts like a "hole under the fence" to draw the circle over and not be directly crossed by the water.  Since the pipe separates the water from the ring and circle, it shouldn't ground out the energies of either.  It seems that running water has to be in direct contact or close to it...at the least there can't be anything separating it from you except a step or two of distance at most.  Otherwise plumbing in modern buildings would bar the activities of most supernatural creatures.

Frankly...I think it'd be worth it to have hot showers, a furnace and A/C.

But what about that one annoying fly? Or mesquito, cockroach, spider, etc? Anything physical that crosses the circle will break it. Heck, Harry worries about DUST when he's working with his summoning circle.

I'd hate to see what happens to the water heater when a spider breaks the circle while Harry's working with Little Chicago...the risks are not worth the price, if you ask me.

-EF

[CMEast]

Out of curiosity, where is everyone getting the rules for magic circles? Or is it purely speculation based on the books? If we treat a magical circle as a threshold (and bear in mind Bob say's we should worry about magic circles at all YS230) then it only affects supernatural power. If the circle itself is damaged (the chalk is rubbed out, the salt line is broken etc) then the circle doesn't exist any more sure, but a metal circle would need to be damaged for it to break surely? And I don't think a spider or a mosquito would be able to break the average circle at all.

Also, I wonder how high circles extend up? And do they go down too? Magical circles are commonly placed on ceilings in Supernatural but is that because they are aiming down? Can flying or burrowing demons get caught in a circle?

[Leatherneck]

Also, I wonder how high circles extend up? And do they go down too? Magical circles are commonly placed on ceilings in Supernatural but is that because they are aiming down? Can flying or burrowing demons get caught in a circle?

I interpret them as going high enough to cover what is required in side and deep enough to be below the circle. 
The other answer, is they are the size to fit the plot.

[Kordeth]

Out of curiosity, where is everyone getting the rules for magic circles? Or is it purely speculation based on the books? If we treat a magical circle as a threshold (and bear in mind Bob say's we should worry about magic circles at all YS230) then it only affects supernatural power. If the circle itself is damaged (the chalk is rubbed out, the salt line is broken etc) then the circle doesn't exist any more sure, but a metal circle would need to be damaged for it to break surely? And I don't think a spider or a mosquito would be able to break the average circle at all.

A physical object or being crossing the boundary of a magic circle breaks it, even if the circle itself isn't marred. See for example Harry and the film cannister in Storm Front.

[CMEast]

Thanks Kordeth, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed most of the books, but it's been a while and I don't have the photographic memory stunt unfortunately. Still, it's a little odd that it works that way, I wonder what the limits are seeing as particles of dirt and so forth obviously don't break it. In game terms I guess it just breaks when something manoeuvre worthy happens to it.

[Kordeth]

Thanks Kordeth, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed most of the books, but it's been a while and I don't have the photographic memory stunt unfortunately. Still, it's a little odd that it works that way, I wonder what the limits are seeing as particles of dirt and so forth obviously don't break it. In game terms I guess it just breaks when something manoeuvre worthy happens to it.

Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying.

And don't worry, I don't have the photographic memory stunt either, I just finished rereading the series last week.

[FutureGameDesigner]

Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying.

And don't worry, I don't have the photographic memory stunt either, I just finished rereading the series last week.

I think it's dependent on the degree of power of the circle, and its nature...at most.  The circle to contain the loup garou was an integrated combination of circles meant to inhibit both spiritual AND physical passage and also any combination of the two.  I'm fairly certain that simple dust wouldn't have broken the circle if it took so much to render the original useless, and only Kim's mistakes in the circle's design and control let him get free and kill her.  So, dust is out on that.

Harry's newest circle and what he used it for probably required a little more cleanliness than standard circles, yes.  Even so, since it's literally physically impossible to get rid of all dust in the air or on the ground without an enforced clean room environment (actually, even in such an environment there's still dust, it's just less pervasive)...dust very likely doesn't break any circle, nor most bugs, since many are too small to be seen and are prevalent in even the cleanest homes.  Also, gases don't break them, which are material objects.  So either size matters, or something about the establishment of a circle automatically clears the area directly above and around the line.  It would also mean any person in a circle for too long would asphyxiate.  Not very reasonable at all, even for magic.  Harry's just being excessively careful, which doesn't really hurt I supposed.  Better safe than sorry.

As for how high a circle goes...probably to a height sufficient to top off whatever's inside, or to the first thing that could've broken it otherwise that intersects it from above, whichever is lower.  Don't really have any clue because it hasn't even been mentioned in the least in any book or short story.  But, that would be pretty reasonable I'd think.

[pfloyd]

Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying.

Actually, his sweeping of the circle may just be part of the ritual of using it, harkening back to the old times, possibly when circles weren't a permanent fixture in a lab, but a "virtual" circle out in the woods or a field, and sweeping a circle pattern was a way to visually mark it so that it would be clear in the mind for visualization.

Just my own two cents, after reading quite a few books on Wicca and practices.

[Victim]

I think of it as like a circuit.  Your PC has some dust in it.  Too much will impair performance.  Actually have solid crap on your graphics card (or something) can cause a short circuit and break something.

When Harry is really putting his circle through its paces with a summoning, slightly degraded efficiency will end up leading to a failure as the creature tries to break it.  If a few percent off drops the effect below what he needs it to do, then it's as good as nothing (and perhaps more expensive).

[FutureGameDesigner]

I think of it as like a circuit.  Your PC has some dust in it.  Too much will impair performance.  Actually have solid crap on your graphics card (or something) can cause a short circuit and break something.

When Harry is really putting his circle through its paces with a summoning, slightly degraded efficiency will end up leading to a failure as the creature tries to break it.  If a few percent off drops the effect below what he needs it to do, then it's as good as nothing (and perhaps more expensive).

Apt analogy.  A basic circle doing nothing but insulating a device isn't likely to be interfered with by common dust and such...it's just not doing enough to matter.  Higher end circles in more intensive tasks will require more care in preparation and maintenance.