Author Topic: Hunger Houseruled  (Read 2588 times)

Offline dubya2112

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Hunger Houseruled
« on: June 20, 2010, 09:47:15 PM »
Hey guys, here's a few ideas and their justifications on hunger and feeding dependence that I've been thinking over (and so far implemented with success, as of last game night).  That being said, I've been lurking around these forums for a while and this is my first post, but I know you all are pretty helpful and have some great ideas on some of the murkier rules and mechanics of the DFRPG.  Which leads me to...

Hunger!

I feel that the current hunger rules don't make much sense for anything other than a Red Court infected or (empowered) White Court virgin.  So, here's an alternate houserule that I think makes hunger more interesting and true to the novels for full vamps (the WC variety in particular).  It uses the discipline skill as per the current rules for the stress track and to avoid the "feeding failure" attack, but with a few modifications.

Using an ability that is tied into feeding dependency for anything longer than light use (anything longer than 1 round of a conflict) costs 1 stress on the hunger track for the scene.  So, a White Court vamp using Inhuman Speed and Strength is going to have his first 2 hunger stress boxes filled.  Another stronger vamp might use Supernatural Speed and Inhuman strength, but the end result would be filling the same 2 hunger stress boxes.

Using the above example, our WCV (with superb discipline) would roll his discipline at the end of the scene to try to avoid the feeding failure attack, but only at a difficulty of 2 (easy to beat, I know, but bear with me).  If he fails his discipline check, follow the standard rules for ability loss or consequence damage.  If he succeeds, he avoids this damage, BUT his hunger stress track does not clear.  Only actively feeding or skipping scenes to have your character go off and feed at rate of 1 point of stress per scene clears the stress track.

Now, cue the next scene.  Our WCV and his party are involved in heavy fighting with a rogue sorcerer with evil designs on his hometown.  During the fight he is forced to use his whole complement of abilities (Inhuman Speed, Strength, and Recovery) for the duration of the scene, dealing 3 additional hunger stress which would fill his 4 boxes and take him out.  So in order to avoid being taken out, he takes a mild hunger consequence (something like Hunger Pangs) when he is forced to use his 3rd inhuman ability extensively.  Any consequence taken for hunger immediately clears out an equal number of stress from the hunger track (because of it's 1 point of stress per ability nature).  So, using our example, the WCV takes his mild hunger consequence t and reduces his stress track by 2, leaving the vamp with 3 boxes of stress on his 4 length track and his mild hunger consequence gained from his superb discipline filled.  At the end of the scene, he must roll against the value of the consequences taken for hunger and his current stress on his track (so he must roll and beat 5).  With his high score, he has even odds of beating this difficulty, and we'll say he beats it by 1, leaving him safe (but hungry) to continue on or to feed.

My reasoning for this is that it just didn't make much sense for feeding dependent characters with high discipline scores to avoid the need to feed entirely, no matter how much energy they burned through.  It also gives these characters incentive to ration out their hunger stress, which keeps high discipline feeders from going balls to the wall on mooks in the same way that spellslingers save their power for the big conflicts.  I feel that this method better reflects the advantage of high self control characters while still keeping them true to their vampiric nature.  Thomas is a great example of this; he has good discipline, but is still subject to his vampiric nature and is often forced to deal with his hunger after pushing himself.  Also, I feel this houserule adds to the roleplay value of feeding dependent PCs. The current rules are mechanical and boring... why have your WCV be forced to sit out a scene when you can turn your WCV's feeding into a fun roleplaying opportunity as he or she tries to sex up a baddie mid fight?

I'd love to hear about other methods or viewpoints on hunger.  My own worry is that this rule is perhaps too hard on characters with feeding dependency, as characters without higher skills in discipline would be hard pressed to keep their cool after some of the tougher fights.  Some additional thoughts about hunger and vamps concern the fact that some of them are able to store energy that they've gained from feeding (a la a certain king and red court blood sacks).  I'm thinking that maybe a character that went out on an all-you-can-eat buffet prior to combat scenes could place a maneuver on himself with discipline like Sated that he could tag to beat his hunger stress, or, more radically, give him a sort of 'positive consequence' that gets used up before his other stress boxes get filled.

*Also, I'm interested in hearing how you guys have handled Items of Power with their own feeding dependency.  I've been treating them much differently; you either give them the energy they need to work or you don't and they don't (essentially giving them a stress track similar to the above, but removing the feeding failure attack).  To use my friend's example, I can skip a meal once in a while with no ill effects other than feeling a bit hungry, but my Gameboy can't skip on changing its batteries.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Hunger Houseruled
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:59:09 PM »
Looks mechanically valid, but I'm not sure it really fits the falvor of the books any better. Thomas is often edge-of-his-control hungry after only a single fight, something that's imposible by our system, and at other times (while well-fed) has had several fights in a row without getting particularly hungry.

Offline JosephKell

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Re: Hunger Houseruled
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 06:53:05 PM »
Looks mechanically valid, but I'm not sure it really fits the falvor of the books any better. Thomas is often edge-of-his-control hungry after only a single fight, something that's imposible by our system, and at other times (while well-fed) has had several fights in a row without getting particularly hungry.
If a WCV hasn't fed in a while, it makes sense to compel against their high concept to make a discipline check harder to avoid hunger stress.  That is a -2.

Granted, taking the compel gives a fate point after the check.
If you have to ask, it probably breaks a Law of Magic.  You're just trying to get the Doom of Damocles.

Offline luminos

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Re: Hunger Houseruled
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 09:45:40 PM »
If a WCV hasn't fed in a while, it makes sense to compel against their high concept to make a discipline check harder to avoid hunger stress.  That is a -2.

Granted, taking the compel gives a fate point after the check.

Thats not really how compels work.  If you are compelling the high concept to make hunger harder to avoid, the nature of the compel should be an automatic failure of some sort.  Typically, you don't get to compel them and make them roll for the same issue, its one or the other.
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Offline JosephKell

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Re: Hunger Houseruled
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 11:38:41 PM »
Thats not really how compels work.  If you are compelling the high concept to make hunger harder to avoid, the nature of the compel should be an automatic failure of some sort.  Typically, you don't get to compel them and make them roll for the same issue, its one or the other.
-2 is more generous than an automatic failure.  Especially for something like Hunger where the outcome isn't a binary success or failure, but a spectrum of how stressed the character becomes.

That said, a less brutal house rule could be a minimum hunger stress of 1 for a scene where a WCV uses their hunger governed power.  Or minimum stress equal to a third of the refresh cost of governed powers used (rounding down).

Since WCV have -6 refresh worth of governed powers.  Just using one power doesn't have a minimum cost but a max of 2.  Using two has minimum stress of 1 and max of 4.  But using all 3 powers has a min stress of 2 and a max of 6.

The only real question is how to count Recovery.  Obviously using the once per scene "I get rid of a mild consequence" effect is a dead give away on usage, but what about between scenes?  Can the WCV choose to not downgrade the recovery time of physical consequences?
If you have to ask, it probably breaks a Law of Magic.  You're just trying to get the Doom of Damocles.

Offline luminos

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Re: Hunger Houseruled
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 11:52:01 PM »
-2 is more generous than an automatic failure.  Especially for something like Hunger where the outcome isn't a binary success or failure, but a spectrum of how stressed the character becomes.

Understood.  But it is my understanding that if the compel doesn't change something in the story, then it has no teeth.  If the compel simply gives a -2, then a simple invoke will balance the compel out with no net loss of fate points, and a good roll would make the result the same whether the character was compelled or not.  Generally, compels should always have a tangible effect on what happens, and not merely a potential effect.

I would not compel a vampire's hunger in such a situation anyways unless the aspect hinted at some trouble controlling it.  Then, the best way to compel it would be to wait for a situation where beating the hunger check is likely, and offering the compel to automatically fail it by one shift.  Paying off the compel would have to mean automatic success, of course, otherwise you risk making them pay a fate point to end up still failing by one shift. 

To summarize, don't just use compels to affect a localized probability, but rather to change the very nature of the situation the character is in.  Its a good deal more interesting that way, and compels will feel more significant.
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