Character Building Help

[Tbora]

Actually according to Dead Beat, the older a zombie is the easier it is to control.Being so old controlling it once raised will not even be hard.

[John Galt]

That's not how dfrpg works though nor should it.  Its a straight up power- control battle.

[Tbora]

The game should match cannon as closely as possible imo.

How could this be handled to do that without hand waving it or doing something equally cheesy.

[Viatos]

The game should match cannon as closely as possible imo.

How could this be handled to do that without hand waving it or doing something equally cheesy.

Harry Dresden is not a necromancer, and the White Council does not allow research into necromancy. They were wrong - Sue was easy to control due to being a skeleton of a simple creature imbued with the wonder and love of millions of children over years and years and years, and also due to the coming Darkhallow making necromancy really easy in Chicago, but that's a fluke and a one-off. Any REAL necromancer could tell you that old and powerful undead are incredibly difficult to control.

There. Canon-friendly solution that avoids players having absurdly powerful minions. DFRPG is really not designed for pets (so few games are) so I'd avoid letting them muck up gameplay in balance. Actually, I'd make Zombie Hordes into scene aspects you'd place with a maneuver and let you use them for maneuvers and Discipline-based attacks, but I wouldn't bother statting up individual zombies at all, and I'd make their mechanical effects based entirely off you.

This might sound disappointing, but it's more fun then you think; imagine using a high-powered magic maneuver (say 9 shifts, called Night of the Living Dead) to hit a zone with Zombies, More Zombies, and Crawling With Zombies - then next turn casting Undead Crush, tagging all three Aspects for a +6 bonus, which lets you hit HARD. You can use your imagination and have a lot of fun with spellcasting-as-undead control, but there's no balanced way in my humble opinion to have an actual zombie horde under player control.

[Tbora]

Peoples what do you think of this solution?

Personally I like it it, but I still see having a handful of zombies (Like around 5 or so) to be alright.What could be a nice compromise between the two options.

[Deadmanwalking]

Personally, I'd allow zombies as legitimate minions, with stats as per the book, and older ones being allowed to take more Consequences but probably nothing more than that barring EXTREME age.

I'd say you can't readily keep more than 5 or 6 around as a regular thing (though you can pull out more for special occasions), just due to the logistics of keeping them all under control in an isolated area and filled with your magic.

For corpses that do have extreme age, I'd allow higher stats, and I wouldn't make them harder to control...I'd just make them extremely difficult to acquire. I might allow a PC to start with one (though probably not), but there would be an Epic Quest involved in getting another corpse of appropriate age, and enemies would target the badass zombie of doom right off the bat.

[Tbora]

DMW could you draw up a build for me that combines Viatos's concepts with your own using Galts build (on pg.3) as a general reference?

[Deadmanwalking]

Sure, here's how I'd do a Horde of Zombies as a series of spells:

I'd do Night of the Living Dead as a Two Aspect Maneuver on the scene with three shifts of Duration. This would be a 9 shift maneuver dealing you a 2 Mental Stress hit.

I'd then do an 6 shift Block (call it Undead Grab) to that entire zone with two shifts of Duration that requires an Undead Aspect to work and deals you 1 Mental stress. It'd keep anyone from attacking or leaving the Zone.

I'd then use Undead Crush, which would be a Weapon 9 attack to the entire zone that dealt you a 2 stress Mental Hit, and required an Undead Aspect to work. You can thus do it two times to that zone (tagging the second Aspect once, then spending a Fate Point, or gaining a point of Sponsor Debt, for the second).

This procedure accurately reflects being grabbed and ripped apart by a horde of Zombies. It also fills up your Mental Stress track, requires 4 rounds total, and will really kill most things (so beware of Lawbreaker for murder).

[Tbora]

Much thanks, you've been a big help, earlier you said the rotes look iffy but you didn't have the time to look at them, assuming you do now, could you check them for me, then pull everything together into a single build?BTW, I hand an idea for a rote where a zombie takes a metaphysical "bullet" for me.

[Deadmanwalking]

High Concept: Kemmlerite Bastard of a Demon Lord
Trouble: Under My Father's Thumb

Powers:
[-3] Evocation (Spirit Power +1)
[-3] Thaumaturgy (Necromancy Control +1)
[-2] Kemmlerian Necromancy
[+2] Demonic Pimp Cane;
[-2] Law Breaker (Fifth Law)
[-1] Marked by Power

Skills:
Superb: Conviction, Discipline
Great: Lore, Deceit
Good: Endurance, Presence
Fair: Alertness, Athletics, Indimidation
Average: Weapons, Guns, Contacts, Resources, Burglary

Focus Items:

Silver Bracelet (+2 Necromancy control, +2 offensive spirit power) (Note: A coin is ring sized, and thus too small)

Rotes:

Zombie Sacrifice - Block 8 or Armor 4 to defend yourself - One Mental Stress

Soul-Ripping - Weapon 8 attack - One Mental Stress

Night of the Living Dead - 9 shift Maneuver (Two Aspects on the scene with three shifts of Duration) - Two Mental Stress

Undead Crush - Weapon 9 attack to the entire zone that requires an Undead Aspect to work - Two Mental Stress

All require Silver Bracelet.



Other Useful Spells:

Death Bolt - Weapon 6 attack - Zero Mental Stress (Note: Only works if you're using Evocation Spin rules.)

Undead Grab - 6 shift Block to an entire zone (keeps anyone from attacking or leaving the Zone) with two shifts of Duration that requires an Undead Aspect to work. - One Mental Stress

[Tbora]

DMW YOU ARE AMAZING!!!

I salute you sir.

One final thing, then I'll stop bugging you, are there any major weaknesses to this build and just how effective would you call it?

[Viatos]

DMW YOU ARE AMAZING!!!

I salute you sir.

One final thing, then I'll stop bugging you, are there any major weaknesses to this build and just how effective would you call it?

Weaknesses are the same as every caster: you got 4-6 exchanges to win or you're dead, you can't get attacked since you can't afford toughness/recovery, and God help you if you're up against characters that can deal mental stress (like Red and White Court vampires).

[Tbora]

Thank you Viatos, that was enlightening, now where does the build shine?

[Deadmanwalking]

If it can get the combo I suggested above rolling, it'll kill just about any Zone worth of enemies you'd care to name. Other than that, it shines where any Wizard shines: when they have time to prepare. With prep and ritual magic, the character (and anyone with Thaumaturgy) can do almost anything.

[JustinS]

Actually according to Dead Beat, the older a zombie is the easier it is to control.Being so old controlling it once raised will not even be hard.

I'd say "the older the zombie, the easier it is to assess and declare aspects on".
Likewise the more interesting the zombie...