What powers should the weapon Guignir have?

[Emburii]

My wizard has the weapon Guignir, previously known as the Spear of Destiny.  So far I've put nothing on the weapon except some focus slots, but I'm going to be making it more formidable as the game progresses.  There are three different options floated, and advice as to which one is most effective for refresh paid would be appreciate.

1)  The spear can get through supernatural toughness and recovery in the same fashion as the Knights' swords, with maybe a shift or two of extra damage in general.  The GM quoted that as three refresh, which seems a little high for something so straightforward.

2)  The Spear has three charges that never miss and always kill, so long as the subject of the curse is within thrusting/casting range of the so-armed wielder.  After that, an eye or an hand can be sacrificed for one extra charge each.  After that, the spear must be passed on to another worthy warrior.  This would also count as sponsored magic from Odin's hand, and thus would not break the Laws of Magic.  The baseline was for this was taken from the Noose that Nicodemus wears at five refresh, though apparently the package could be up to seven.  That's a lot of refresh for something very powerful, but it has five charges max and two of those at a disadvantage.  Is it worth the price?

3)  The spear can bestow runic spells as sponsored magic, having been confirmed in the hands of someone judged worthy by Odin.  This would not have a flat cost, as I understand it, but would the flavor for dedicating refresh as the character progresses.  This has promise, but doesn't seem quite unique and flashy enough for the flavor I wanted.  Is this a potent and interesting enough possibility to work with anyway?

The spear is in the hands of a full White Council wizard, if that affects anything.  Monoc Securities has not been invoked in the game yet, but Sleipnir has shown up and the GM has plans to incorporate other Norse themes and material into the main plot. 

Thoughts?

[luminos]

The cost for 1) seems reasonable.  I wouldn't even allow 2), no matter how balanced you made it.  It is far too far into the level of plot device to be something I'd give to a PC for casual use. 

[Emburii]

Well, option two is tempered by the fact that one has to within melee range of the target.  Given that most of the refresh for the wielder would be in Guignir and not toughness or defensive magic, said character would have to worry about being squished before they could even get into position to use it on something really big.  Also, the big bad of the campaign has mythic recovery and thus would only be inconvenienced.  :p 

What do you think of option three?

[JustinS]

1) is powerful, I'd pay [-3] for a weapon with that, did that include the item of power bonus or not?

For 2) possibly a [-1] power that lets you make a sacrifice attack, and invoke an extreme consequence as an offensive bonus?

I'd say watched by Odin is a side effect, if he wants to sponsor you later on, he can...

[Papa Gruff]

I don't think I'm getting this correctly so I ask:

You want to play a Wizard with an Item of Power?! On which Refresh Level are you guys playing and how the heck are you affording it? It is clearly much deeper then submerged, because -8 for Wizard and -3 for even the most basic Item of power makes -11 Refresh. That's not taking into account that the Item you desire would cost a lot more refresh...

I suppose I must be getting something wrong here. But as I understand it the PC you are planing is not on par with the basic rules. House rules are an other story though. If you allow such things at your table then everything is fine...

1. Is perfectly possible. (Problematic only for a Wizard)
2. What Luminos said. Something that kills three times without fail does not belong in the hands of a PC in my opinion. Otherwise: Goodbye Ferry Queens, goodbye Dragons, goodbye Outsiders ... basically good bye to all major league opposition.

Edit: Ah ... Ok ... I think I have misread. So far it is just a Focus Item. And it will become a Item of Power at some Point. Don't know if that is covered by the rules but at least it seems possible in the refresh department this way.

[Emburii]

We're playing at Submerged and yes, it is possible according to the rules.  The spear itself doesn't cost any refresh right now; it's covered under the wizard template, but also doesn't have any powers other than the stabby-stabby bit and its bonuses as a standard focus.  The weapon's abilities and iconic traits have been diluted by appropriation, but its magic will return as the character makes a name for the spear as Guignir by doing brave deeds with it.  I won't be spending any refresh on the character's magic or skills for a while, I'll just be 'banking' it until I get the lump sum needed to make this flavored object an Item of Power.
The only reason the GM is considering option two is because of that 'arm's reach' clause.  Getting into that range with a dragon will be an effort in and of itself.  Also, trying to kill an Outsider might not even work because of strange circumstances of space and time or something, and a necromancer may not stay dead even if they're killed once.  His big bad for the campaign would recover as well. 
In the end, though, having it work like the Swords seems like a good option.  Reasonably priced, useful, and flavored appropriately, I'm leaning more towards it.

[TheMouse]

Last I checked, the All Father's spear is named Gungnir.

I would also remember that if Odin lends a weapon to a mortal, that mortal is pretty damned doomed. He regularly does this so that a mortal will have an epic moment in battle, after which the weapon disappears and ends up leaving the mortal to his death.

[Emburii]

The weapon in question was not given by Odin's hand, and has not been identified with him for many years.  The GM might bring him in eventually, but right now it's my character reclaiming its aspect as Gungnir instead of Odin gifting or lending it.  Whether he even knows it's active right now or not is in question, though one NPC has indicated that if Odin objected the Spear would most likely have been out of the character's hands with her death by now.

As for weapons disappearing after an epic moment and leaving their previous owners to a bloody death, that would actually fit option two fairly well; all that refresh disappearing with the weapon would leave behind a wizard that's pretty squishy for the power level. 

[TheMouse]

Odin generally keeps a pretty close eye on his spear (even if he does only have the one). So I think you'd need a better excuse than he just hadn't noticed.

One option is based on his habit of consecrating battles to himself. He hurls Gungnir over the battlefield, then all who die there count as sacrifices to himself.

Perhaps he consecrated a very long running battle or war to himself, something that includes one or more very powerful individuals. The All Father wishes that when they die, these individuals should become his Einherjar. However, due to the way such things work, he must wait for the conclusion of the battle before he may retrieve his spear. Odin plays long games, so he's comfortable doing so, even if he would like his weapon back.

This means the Gungnir is free and clear for the moment... until this long standing battle ends. Hell of a plot hook, if you ask me.

[Emburii]

Oooh, that is an interesting interpretation.  Definitely one way to handle it.

As for not noticing, it's also kind of been appropriated by another religion; I'm using some of the history and mythology for the Spear of Destiny in Vienna.  How that's affected the spear hasn't really been defined, but the idea of a long-reaching conflict could be one of many plot hooks for the weapon.

[2814]

It is the spear of destiny.  Odin was not the nicest god. Two of his other names were bulverk and vargr( evil-do'er and wolf or criminal, respectively) Below is something that might help balance such a powerful item. Let me know what you think.


     The wielder is doomed to know the fate of all around him while it is in his possession. Good bad and ugly, the end of all he loves and hates he and he alone knows. Treat it like a long range cassandra's tears. Put a catch on the weapon that if he speaks of it, the spear either leaves or kills him. A whole new range of story can come from him trying to change fate. If he can.

[Emburii]

He was also the god of condemned criminals, specifically those hung for their crimes, if I recall correctly.  He's not nice, but at least he doesn't claim to be anything else.

That is a pretty awesome catch.  I will bring it to the GM's attention.

[2814]

Everyone he interacts with, from the barista that gives him coffee to the bad guys that try to kill him. Think people are leery of him because he does not make eye contact. Just wait until this hits. I have an npc who has cassandra's tears, he uses it in a tactical capacity. Try sneaking up on a guy who can see a few seconds into the future.