Feeding Dependency: Power loss and Consequences

[Zooroos]

Hi!

One of my players wants to play a Red Court Infected, and we found some problems regarding recovery from Hunger and the Feeding Dependency power. We have summarized so far:

- In order to clean up the Hunger stress track, the vampire player should: a) Win a Discipline contest against the powers' Refresh cost used during the last scene, b) skip a scene (because he's feeding), and c) killing a victim while he's feeding.

- In order to recover lost powers, the vampire player should: a) Skip a scene (because he's feeding) for 1-point Refresh recovery, and b) killing a victim while he's feeding for full recovery.

- In order to fully recover from Hunger Consequences, the vampire player should: a) Skip a scene (because he's feeding), and b) killing a victim while he's feeding.

Now, being a playable Red Court Infected pretty much wipes the last option off the table for every type of effect, which means the only way for recovering lost powers and treating Consequences is by skipping a scene! Don't get me wrong, I think skipping a scene is a fine secondary option for doing these, but I don't think it should be the only option.

Am I reading this wrong? Is there any other way for cleaning Hunger Consequences and recovering lost powers that we haven't seen yet?

Thanks in advance! Regards,

ZOOROOS

[ballplayer72]

Hi!

One of my players wants to play a Red Court Infected, and we found some problems regarding recovery from Hunger and the Feeding Dependency power. We have summarized so far:

- In order to clean up the Hunger stress track, the vampire player should: a) Win a Discipline contest against the powers' Refresh cost used during the last scene, b) skip a scene (because he's feeding), and c) killing a victim while he's feeding.

- In order to recover lost powers, the vampire player should: a) Skip a scene (because he's feeding) for 1-point Refresh recovery, and b) killing a victim while he's feeding for full recovery.

- In order to fully recover from Hunger Consequences, the vampire player should: a) Skip a scene (because he's feeding), and b) killing a victim while he's feeding.

Now, being a playable Red Court Infected pretty much wipes the last option off the table for every type of effect, which means the only way for recovering lost powers and treating Consequences is by skipping a scene! Don't get me wrong, I think skipping a scene is a fine secondary option for doing these, but I don't think it should be the only option.

Am I reading this wrong? Is there any other way for cleaning Hunger Consequences and recovering lost powers that we haven't seen yet?

Thanks in advance! Regards,

ZOOROOS

maybe he could just knock over a blood bank?   or get a donation from another character ala

(click to show/hide)

harry and susan in changes

[CMEast]

For a PC RCV, could you perhaps play that draining that much blood doesn't necessarily have to kill the victim, but the RCV would have to roll against his discipline at a difficulty of each point of stress, cleared, plus 2 for the refresh cost of each power, plus the consequence amount. Failure to pass the difficulty can be taken as mental consequences.

So the Vamp may be pretty sure they can stop feeding, at the risk of suffering mental consequences ('scared to feed' 'hungry for more' etc). Of course, if they get taken out, you can assume they've killed the victim and severely traumatised themselves in the process.

Could that work?

[digital3lf]

I noticed this as well. I think the idea is to make it extremely difficult to recover hunger stress as a RC infected, which is awesome, but they did seem to leave out any fun options for such a character. I'd probably say that hunger consequences recover when the character has the opportunity to sit down and feed carefully, possibly requiring assistance to refrain from killing. This wouldn't need to be played out but could be done between scenes when it feels appropriate. Powers could be returned in a similar way. 2 refresh of powers would take as long as a mild consequence, 4 points of powers would take as long as moderate, and 6 would be a severe timeframe. Just keep in mind the golden rule of consequences: they should not often recover before you have had a chance to make them inconvenient!

[digital3lf]

For a PC RCV, could you perhaps play that draining that much blood doesn't necessarily have to kill the victim, but the RCV would have to roll against his discipline at a difficulty of each point of stress, cleared, plus 2 for the refresh cost of each power, plus the consequence amount. Failure to pass the difficulty can be taken as mental consequences.

So the Vamp may be pretty sure they can stop feeding, at the risk of suffering mental consequences ('scared to feed' 'hungry for more' etc). Of course, if they get taken out, you can assume they've killed the victim and severely traumatised themselves in the process.

Could that work?

This way could also work and it a bit more mechanical. I think this was referring only to Red Court Infected (not fully turned), but that makes me like the risk of killing if the feeding goes horribly wrong. Of course you'd want to let your player avoid dooming their character due to bad dice rolls, but it could cost them some fate points.

Needless to say, a RC Infected PC should be pushing to get tattoos of St. Giles ASAP!

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, this should just result in RCI's taking as much Stress as possible in Consequences, since they can get rid of all of those with a single scene out. That seems appropriate and reasonable to me.

[Wordmaker]

I imagine it's intended that a Red Court Infected would either have to seek out membership with the Fellowship of St. Giles or have a very short life expectancy as a PC. It's supposed to be a curse, a truly horrible way to live, not a way to get superpowers.

I suppose it goes back to the idea that vampires in the Dresden Files aren't brooding avengers of the night or figures of tragic romance. They're monsters, and any story featuring an infected PC should be greatly influenced by their struggle to retain their humanity.

[Victim]

Our WCV hasn't really had any trouble with his feeding track.  He's only failed Discipline once, mostly because he attacks with guns, so Inhuman Strength doesn't come up much.  And Great Discipline really helps too.    Even if he has to use 4 or 6 points of powers in one scene, he can usually empty out the stress track in an easier scene where he only needs to use Inhuman Speed.  Especially since free supplemental movement essentially lets the vampire get an +1 defense against slower melee enemies, so he'll often avoid taking a Consequence (and thus can get by without recovery.  A 2 difficulty check is basically a gimme for him.

So with a decent Discipline, you should be pretty good as long as you can get away without using all of your powers all of the time.  That makes the Discipline check really easy, so you can use it to clear out stress. 

It seems like it'd also be possible to cheese, using a weak power pointlessly just to allow a really easy discipline check.  However, that seems against the spirit of the rules.

I think that a RCI would benefit a lot from prep work.  It's much easier to handle a sudden feeding crisis if your friends can toss you some blood packs that have been saved up, so they seem less like delicious snacks themselves. 

[Zooroos]

Thank you all for the quick replies 

Maybe we are just overthinking the apparent problems. The FATE system is not very granular, and I think there is different level of abstraction that makes the typical "system simulation approach" a bit unnecesary. Maybe the important thing here is just to focus on the narrative itself, on how the mechanics support the story at each scene. I'm gonna try the system as is to see if the problems are really as bad as we believe.

I'll keep you informed of my experiences with it.

Regards,

[KOFFEYKID]

Im playing a full red court vampire (she was deathcursed to keep her soul) in one game and it seems to be pretty balanced. In the first conflict she used all of her powers and had to eat 5 hunger stress, but I took two mild consequences and lost access to cloak of shadows. It'll only take one scene for me to feed and get rid of both the consequences and the stress, or I can limit what I use in the next scene (which is coming up soon) and roll discipline to beat whatever comes my way. If I win the roll then I'll get access to Cloak of Shadows again, but I'll keep the consequences.

So far I havent had to go lunatic and munch on homeless people.

[EldritchFire]

Im playing a full red court vampire (she was deathcursed to keep her soul) in one game and it seems to be pretty balanced. In the first conflict she used all of her powers and had to eat 5 hunger stress, but I took two mild consequences and lost access to cloak of shadows. It'll only take one scene for me to feed and get rid of both the consequences and the stress, or I can limit what I use in the next scene (which is coming up soon) and roll discipline to beat whatever comes my way. If I win the roll then I'll get access to Cloak of Shadows again, but I'll keep the consequences.

That's actually pretty awesome. Angel, much?  ^_^

So far I havent had to go lunatic and munch on homeless people.

Famous last words. I'll keep my eye on the obituaries for the next few days, make sure you're keeping on the straight and narrow.

-EF

[KOFFEYKID]

Just an update, in the latest fight I used 4 refresh of powers and rolled a 9 on my discipline, so I easily controlled my hunger and got access to Cloak of Shadows again. Now my character is at H OOOO, with two mild Hunger Consequences that'll go away the first chance I get to feed.