DISPROVE THIS

[Calderis]

well, sir or madam, or like neuro singular they, I'd say you are atypical of the human experience.  Behavior such as what I described and you agreed to is generally considered unstable and "wrong", especially if you're applying it to human beings or non insectoid life (people don't seem to care about insects being harmed or killed cause theyre icky).   Just a thought lol 

This is self delusion. While I will say not all; the majority of humans, as a psychological crutch break down others to make themselves feel better. It may not be causing physical harm, but we as a species routinely inflict emotional harm on others for exactly the reason you stated. It makes us feel better.

[neofyte]

This is self delusion.

Not self-delusion, but mass delusion.  About eighty-five percent (David Hawkins, Power vs. Force) of the planet subscribe to the notion of comparative self worth, that intrinsic value is based on how we stack up against others around us: can I write a wittier post? Do I make more money?  Am I better looking?  Can I take him in a fight?
To aspire to equanimity is, according to some, life's noblest purpose.  This fr. Albert Einstein:
We exist as part of a greater whole, called universe.  Humans are a part limited in time and space.  Each perceives herself as something different or separate from the rest.  This perception is actually an optical delusion of consciousness.  It restricts us to our own self-interest...The greatest task of life is to break free from this prison, which can only be done by widening our circle of compassion to encompass all of humanity.
I learned this vicariously from Mark Schultz, a former gold medalist Olympic wrestler, while studying Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in 1992.  Whenever I would pair up with Mark, my goal was not to win, but to extend the number of seconds before forced to 'tap out.'  Mark was the toughest and most accomplished wrestler I had ever seen, and he could even give the professor a close match.
One day, a newcomer got so frustrated at being repeatedly bested by Mark he actually tried to trade blows.  Far from wiping the floor with him, which I was privately rooting for, Mark gracefully difused his anger by apologizing and demurely begging off an altercation cause 'I don't want to get my ass kicked.'
Would Mark have been bested?  No way in Hades.  That was my first introduction to consummate self-confidence.  Mark had nothing to prove.  And he knew the best way to win a fight was to make friends, rather than /best/ enemies.

[Calderis]

Well said sir, and I stand corrected.

[Ms Duck]

Back on topic:

"If (cowl) succeeded, he'd have had the collective power of all of those supernatural beings and then some.  He'd have been clearly stronger than the Ladies, and a full-on equal to Mab.  I mean, why do you think the Erlking was summoned as part of that ritual?  Because that's how the big E got so boss in the first place.   

For that matter, how do you think the Mothers and Queens and Ladies established their original base of power?  That big old sacrificial, power-sucking stone table in Tir na noth isn't there for its primitive decorative aesthetic."
"Cause you need people around to fuel the fire.   Had Cowl been successful, his ascension would have exterminated every source of life for several miles--and the more who died, the more elevated he would have become.  Think of them as a big old batch of human sacrifices.

The hag's ritual was a far more primitive version of Kemmler's rite, and wouldn't have done nearly as much for her as the Darkhallow would have for Cowl--but it still would have sparked off massive violence, plague, ill-fortune and general chaos for miles all around."--JB

he later emebellished in a live interview that the queens were at one time human, I believe. I dont have an actual quote here, but it's been listed several times in the threads about the queens themselves.( and allso implied for example, with JB's statment that the gruffs were all originaly changelings, as was presumably lea)

Frankly im of the opinion that ALL the gods were onc ehuman wizards who ascended, or their servants, and that's why the 'laws must stand as written' to prevent people from starting World Wars to become super gods.

[mid_life_crisis]

Frankly im of the opinion that ALL the gods were onc ehuman wizards who ascended, or their servants, and that's why the 'laws must stand as written' to prevent people from starting World Wars to become super gods.

There might also be a bit of "we got ours and we're doing our best to close the club to new members."

[Reil]

he later emebellished in a live interview that the queens were at one time human, I believe. I dont have an actual quote here, but it's been listed several times in the threads about the queens themselves.( and allso implied for example, with JB's statment that the gruffs were all originaly changelings, as was presumably lea)

Wow.  That's very remeniscent of the rite of ascension used in Berserk.  Might need to revisit my [even more] nerdly days and re-read that series. 

If it's true that the fairy queens/erlking were once mortals/humans/changelings/whatever,  I wonder if their ascension came concurrent to their switch to full-on fairy, and if so, who did they sacrifice?  Was it just a random bunch of people, or did the sacrifices have personal meaning to them?

Frankly im of the opinion that ALL the gods were onc ehuman wizards who ascended, or their servants, and that's why the 'laws must stand as written' to prevent people from starting World Wars to become super gods.

Don't think I agree with this one here.  This might work for a lot of the mythological deities, especially those from the Greek, Egyptian, Norse, and Hindu traditions.  Many of them seem to act just like extremely powerful people might.  Angels (fallen and otherwise) were here before humanity, before time.  It would seem strange then to think that the white god in the dresdenverse is an ascended human.  The Outsiders as well as the entities referred to in Backup seem particularly alien in nature. 

[ballplayer72]

I wouldn't. People enjoy destruction. They love walking in fresh snow, sitting in new cars, biting into whole apples, because the supposed untaintedness, the wholeness give them a little warm fuzzy feeling to know that they have the privilege of destroying it.

What child doesn't love winning?

Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?

So you'd rape a woman because you desire her and you are able to physically overpower her?

Cause thats where that logic leads.     

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

  Angels (fallen and otherwise) were here before humanity, before time.

I would note that we have no evidence for this beyond these entities' claims.

[WarlocksRUs]

I would note that we have no evidence for this beyond these entities' claims.

What evidence would you accept?

[neofyte]

It would seem strange then to think that the white god in the dresdenverse is an ascended human.  

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think that one is from Joseph Smith (Mormon)?

[svb1972]

Actually if Gods are ascended humans, why does The Archangel formely known as Murphy's Mouth, call the Red King 'False Gods and Usurpers".  By that definition all the Gods would be usurpers.  Which would I think make Odin just a touch nervous.

And Mab is not a God.  She's a force of Nature.  Slightly different.

The Mormons believe they are part of the lost 13th tribe of Israel.  it's complicated and way outside the scope of this board

And actually the only evidence we have that Angels(Fallen or otherwise) are from before time is /maybe/ Lash saying she was around for Millennium before those little upstarts men.  But Lash is about as reliable as a pathological liar.

Uriel doesn't really talk about how long he's been around.  I mean, sure he uses words like, The All Mighty.  But that could be PR and not a claim to have existed before existance itself.

[Curly]

Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?

So you'd rape a woman because you desire her and you are able to physically overpower her?

Cause thats where that logic leads.     

That's quite a leap. Care to explicit your "logic" for those of us with shorter mental legs?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

What evidence would you accept?

Something we were shown, as opposed to something we were told.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Actually if Gods are ascended humans, why does The Archangel formely known as Murphy's Mouth, call the Red King 'False Gods and Usurpers".  By that definition all the Gods would be usurpers.  Which would I think make Odin just a touch nervous.

Not necessarily, I think it's also compatible with the following take on things:

The original, real, not-false LoONs are/were ascended humans, who have been swept out of DV Earth into the deep NN in whatever event it was swept all the other old gods out.  The Red Court's LoONs are pretenders claiming that title.

The archangel riding Murphy could be objecting to the latter ut still be entirely happy with generally considering ascended-human-type gods as gods.

[ballplayer72]

That's quite a leap. Care to explicit your "logic" for those of us with shorter mental legs?

You quoted it and so did I:  Who would not use whatsoever power they had (like say physical strength) to get what they want (sex with a particular woman.)?

The word WHATSOEVER puts no limits on means. The phrase "what they want" puts no limits on certain outcomes.    That means you could use any means to achieve any goal (in this instance physical strength to force sexual intercourse).
Thats the problem with making absolute statements.  I have yet to see one that fits every situation (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it)


We don't even have to use rape as an example if it makes you uncomfortable.   
How about this one:   Is murder an appropriate method of career advancment?   Would you kill the next guy in line so you could have the spot?    Its easily within your power (you can buy a gun or a knife can't you?) and for the sake of the excercise no one will ever know about it and you'll actually get the job, but only if the guy dies.
So, do you use "whatsoever power" to achieve your "want"?   See the problem?