Author Topic: DISPROVE THIS  (Read 126269 times)

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #285 on: June 22, 2010, 11:31:53 PM »
I'm finding it rather spookie that Little Chicago's missing and Harry dosen't know.  I just figured it was under the tarp, but did find it odd he didn't use it.

I think "he used it as one of the half-dozen methods he tried for finding Thomas and did not mention it specifically" is a perfectly viable explanation here.

Though I have always thought it was in part inspired by Mort's ghosts finding necroenergy trick in DB in the first place, so it showing up in GS would be cool.
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Offline nthnclls

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #286 on: June 23, 2010, 12:04:58 AM »


NO NO NO that is when the Survivors from the colonies landed.
:o

That's where the survivors of Oceanic 815 REALLY landed...

The Man in Black is really just Demonreach.

It's at least as sane as Molly/Mab, even if there'y less evidence for it  :P
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Offline mid_life_crisis

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #287 on: June 23, 2010, 12:44:39 AM »
I'm finding it rather spookie that Little Chicago's missing and Harry dosen't know.  I just figured it was under the tarp, but did find it odd he didn't use it.

He mentions Little Chicago during Changes.  His memory of it is back, if it was ever truly gone.
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Offline sanchez

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #288 on: June 23, 2010, 02:37:18 AM »
could you find the conversation of when he mentiones it? i dont recall him mentioning it
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Offline Landing

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #289 on: June 23, 2010, 02:43:41 AM »

here is the quote:
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Ta­bles and shelves lined the walls, cov­ered in wiz­ard­ly bric-​a-​brac. A long ta­ble ran down the mid­dle of the room, al­most en­tire­ly oc­cu­pied by a scale mod­el of down­town Chica­go made of pewter, right down to the street­lights and trees.
Changes

I don't think anything ever happened to little chicago or Harry's memory of it he just didn't use it in that book so it didn't need to be mentioned in great detail.
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Offline Ms Duck

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #290 on: June 23, 2010, 04:13:09 PM »
ahh but he mentions it in every other book, wether he uses it or not;
It would have been dang usefull in turn coat; he mentions the table it is on, but only as 'covered by a tarp';
 he had the indicative headaches that were caused by Mab in small favor when she borrowed his blasting rod;
even if the nickleheads or someone else had gotten to Harry they would still have had to walk into the lab;
somone messed with LC before, in Proven Guilty;
which was the Mab and Molly book;
there is a lot of evidence to sho it was Mab who messed with it then;
and Duck has diarhea of the semicolon disease;
making her a period ic enema of the state.
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Offline khazican

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #291 on: June 24, 2010, 02:46:53 AM »
As I recall wasn't a giant hole burned through the table during White Night when Harry was spying on Cole? With all the time and energy spent on trying to create it, perhaps harry didn't have enough to be able to repair all the damage before SmF, TC, and Changes.

Offline kyoryu

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #292 on: June 24, 2010, 03:12:17 AM »
As I recall wasn't a giant hole burned through the table during White Night when Harry was spying on Cole? With all the time and energy spent on trying to create it, perhaps harry didn't have enough to be able to repair all the damage before SmF, TC, and Changes.

Yup.  And not only the table, but one of the buildings (at least) was ruined as well.

Offline mid_life_crisis

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #293 on: June 24, 2010, 03:22:03 AM »
Yup.  And not only the table, but one of the buildings (at least) was ruined as well.
I was thinking about Little Chicago being detailed down to buildings and even trees.  To be perfectly accurate, he has to redo the thing constantly.  Not just because streets get fixed, buildings are torn down and built, but trees grow and die off.  This thing is a monumental time consumer, just to constantly cruise Chicago looking for changes.  Then making new trees and buildings and whatnot...
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Offline MijRai

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #294 on: June 24, 2010, 04:47:09 AM »
I was thinking about Little Chicago being detailed down to buildings and even trees.  To be perfectly accurate, he has to redo the thing constantly.  Not just because streets get fixed, buildings are torn down and built, but trees grow and die off.  This thing is a monumental time consumer, just to constantly cruise Chicago looking for changes.  Then making new trees and buildings and whatnot...


He did have the Little Folk fetching the stuff for him, so it was just a matter of putting it in.
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Offline mid_life_crisis

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #295 on: June 24, 2010, 12:14:57 PM »
He did have the Little Folk fetching the stuff for him, so it was just a matter of putting it in.
Really?  When did that come out?  I don't remember it.  Although it makes perfect sense.  "Hey, Toot, I have this model of the city in my basement.  Now I don't want anybody touching it, but if while you're out and about you notice that the real city has changed, let me know, okay?"
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Offline Landing

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #296 on: June 24, 2010, 12:59:08 PM »
I don't remember that either, which book was that in?
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Offline Dale B

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #297 on: June 24, 2010, 01:14:24 PM »
Well sort of a joke. 

Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’

In 'White Knight', the model was damaged by the backlash from Cowl, and acted as the buffer that kept Dresden's head from blowing off his shoulders. JB has never been specific as to how long it takes for magical damage to heal; between that incident and Lash's burning herself out protecting him, there was more than enough brain damage to cause headaches as things began to heal (those 'pinpricks' of damage would have involved actual nerves and capillaries as well as ganglia. Two most common causes of headache? Nerve compression and vascular issues).
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Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)

Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
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So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly.

Actually, all that would do is keep Dresden alive. Cowl was a mortal, and his attack through LC destroyed it's function, and nearly killed Dresden. The nagloshi is a semi-divine being a few levels up from ol Cowl in the brute force department (else Cowl & Co. would have had no real need for the Darkhallow). This was quite likely the reason he didn't bother with the thing; a mortal wizard nearly fried his cortex. Anything stronger would have burned him to ash in the attempt. And shagnasty is most likely stronger than Cowl is.
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 It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)

Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
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It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future,
As do the Mothers, as seen in SK. And as we haven't seen Titania in any meaningful way, giving Mab all this is a bit premature. Taking one slice of a whole does not give you a picture of the whole. It's just one slice.
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who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.

Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
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We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.

About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
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We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.

Like how many other wizards.....? Molly is far from unique in any of those categories. And maybe more importantly, has so far shown absolutely no predilection for cold based magic. Or the kind of power needed to time travel.
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We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.

And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer.
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As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.

Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
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Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.

Enjoy disproving.




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Offline MijRai

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #298 on: June 24, 2010, 01:21:40 PM »
Small Favor, I believe. It is pretty common sense, too. Harry does smart stuff occassionally, right? Right?
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Offline Landing

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Re: DISPROVE THIS
« Reply #299 on: June 24, 2010, 02:09:06 PM »
I have reread Small favors numerous times, its one of my favorite books, and I'm pretty sure that's not in there, maybe it was a different book you are remembering? you don't have a quote do you?
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