How To Stat Sleeping Powder

[Morfedel]

So the ways to model a tranq dart (or other sleep-inducing effect) would involve one or more of the following:
Round 1: Block versus doing anything
Subsequent rounds: maneuvers to plant "Sleepy" aspects
Take-down: physical stress to take out the target, tagging previous "Sleepy" aspects

In the case of Tranq darts fired by gun-wielding mortal agents, and not sleep spells, would we assume the NPC can perform all three of these actions, or would we create a Stunt to reflect this particular tactical use of their Guns skill?

How I'd model a tranq gun is a weapon that acts like a block vs anything, essentially until they wake up, or a weapon that does enough damage to completely take out anyone of a certain amount of stress track, so that the toughest migration struggle to stay awake.

I prefer the take out effect. Why? Once hit, and affected, a target would geneeally be out for  minutes at least, and more likely hours. That's a lot closer to being taken out than anything.

Hm; weapon 5, only normal living creatures. Or....

Well, the problem is DFRPG has rules for continuous damage for precisely two.sources: the venomous add-on for claws, and environmental sources. Nothing else causes ongoing damage.

This, to me, is a flaw. So, I've purchased Strands of Fate, and I plan to port over some of their rules, including continuous damage and persistent aspects.

Then a tranq dart could do continuous damage... for a limited number of rounds. Or, there.are.other possibilities, but I'll wait until I'm done reading the book.

[devonapple]

Well, the problem is DFRPG has rules for continuous damage for precisely two.sources: the venomous add-on for claws, and environmental sources. Nothing else causes ongoing damage.

If folks are quick to equate Taken Out [sleeping] with Taken out [dead], then perhaps we make a version of Venomous which does the same thing, but won't kill? It could remain a -2 Refresh power (well, as written, it is tied to Claws)

Or we could (just to figure game balance) build an Item of Power which provides a Venomous Breath Weapon [-3 or -4], call it a Tranq Rifle, and then factor it into the Refresh rating of each agent/merc/etc. using the weapon.

Tranq Rifle
It Is What It Is: Ranged Weapon:1.
Imparted Abilities: Venomous Breath Weapon which causes fatigue and unconsciousness, not death [-4].
One-Time Discount: +2.
Unbreakable: not necessary for this item. Should it get another discount of +1?
Item Refresh Cost: -1 to -2, depending on GM preference.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

I still don't buy it. To me, if you put them to sleep or encase them in concrete, in MY games, it had better be a block or taking them out.  Such status events are too severe to merely grant a +2 modifier in my book, and taking someone out with a maneuver whrn, you know, they have his thing called Taking Out, feels like an attempt to game the system.

Now, if you wanted.them to just be Sleepy, sure, I could accept that with a maneuver - but not flat-out asleep. That's what blocks and taking outs are for.

   First of all, compelling doesn't just give a +2 to a roll. You can compel for narrative effect and basically declare the targets actions.
   Second "asleep" is not full on being taken out. Anyone else can try to shake you awake (taking an action to remove the aspect) and any action that would cause noise, or any action taken directly upon you would entitle you to an alertness roll to remove the aspect and act normally... If you did not have the chance to wake up it would be a taken out result (and a coma spell not a sleep spell).
   Third. As far as the "Gaming the system" statement. Thats just wrong. Look up the example mindfog spell in Your Story. It does the exact same thing we're talking about, except instead of sleeping, the target just wanders around confused, but still just as helpless (actually moreso since they wheren't able to shrug off the effects, even when there was a gun fight going on right next to them).

[sinker]

Again, I think what this comes down to is can you compel someone to be taken out. It wouldn't be compelling to a concession because there's a little bit of negotiation there, a little give and take. We're talking "I compel you to die." Is that something you want in your game? I'm not sure personally one way or the other. Maybe it would depend on the circumstances.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

Again, I think what this comes down to is can you compel someone to be taken out. It wouldn't be compelling to a concession because there's a little bit of negotiation there, a little give and take. We're talking "I compel you to die." Is that something you want in your game? I'm not sure personally one way or the other. Maybe it would depend on the circumstances.

   But its not compelling someone to die. Its not even really compelling someone to be taken out.
   All a sleep aspect would do is compel someone to give up actions until they succeed in an alertness roll to remove the aspect. You cannot just summarily kill a sleeping target. First he gets a roll to break the sleep, then even if he fails he still gets a defense roll (life is not so simple that we can ever hope things will go as planned, nor casually get things done in stressful situations), though at an effective -2 from the aspect (if the player spends another fate point to compel it again). Then even if hit, the target takes stress and consequences normally (and in any rational game immediately wakes up).

   The Mind Fog spell would have similar effects for different reasons. No. you can't consciously defend yourself. But you're also not lying in one place, you're wandering around confused... Thats not really helpless, its unpredictable. So, you'd still get dodges and defense rolls as a result of just moving around, but you'd have to make some kind of roll to take a directed action.