What makes a Rote? (official ruling requested)

[Tsunami]

I know the Rotes topic has been discussed again and again, but i have yet to find a clear answer.
I it's here somewhere and i have simply missed it, point me at it and i'll go away.

The RAW in YS(257) state that "Any change in the parameters of the spell disqualifies it from being a rote."

Well enough.

Unfortunately some writeups in OW as well as some examples here on the boards seem to disagree.

For example: Carlos's Shield rote

Entropy Field: Ramirez must have his gauntlet in order to cast this rote. Attacks that pass through the field face Armor:3 in the form of disruption and disintegration or can serve as a Fantastic (+6) block. Ramirez sometimes devotes one or two of his basic six shifts to persistence—reduce the block or armor value accordingly when he does.

Now, changing the duration is a change in parameters, at least thats what i thought. So how can the whole thing be a rote?


What i'm looking for is clarification of what constitutes "a change in the parameters"

Can i use a +6 block rote to shield myself at +6, and then another time use it to shield a zone at +4
or to create a +4 block with 2 shifts of duration ?
Or maybe even use it a a zone border instead of a ususal block ?

Can i split my +6 attack up into two +3 attacks ? can i use my +6 attack rote to attack an entire zone at +4 instead?

Can i chose if the aspect a certain maneuver is placing will be a scene aspect or an aspect applied to a specific target ?

Personally i think doing any of these things mentioned here would be a "change in the parameters".
But at the moment it sems to me like a lot of that stuff would have to be possible to fit some of the writeups.

The one thing i would allow is the choice between Block/Armor for block rotes. Seems to me if enchanted items can be both, then a spell should too.

Anything more than that, Changing targets, duration, effects... -> no more rote.

So, I would hereby like to request an official ruling as to "what makes a rote?" specifically clarification on what constitutes "a change in the parameters".
Provided any of the devs find the time to read this... i know you've got your hands full with more important stuff right now.

So long,
Tsu

[Deadmanwalking]

From things the authors have stated I'm pretty sure it's only the following (aside from the explicit Focus rules):

1. Changing the Element
2. Changing the type of effect (such as from an Attack to a Maneuver)
3. Changing what the attack targets: A Veil Rote is always a Block vs. Alertness or Investigation, an Earth attack might always target Might, etc.
4. Changing the amount of Power in the effect
5. Adding on (or removing) the ability to effect the entire Zone

[crusher_bob]

Does this mean that I can have an "any maneuver" rote?  For example, a telekinesis like effect.  I can move myself (for when I want to run away), move others (for when I want the horrible clawed  monster over there instead of over here, and move objects (anything from disarming, calling objects to my hand, picking locks, picking pockets, etc).

Then that's not much of a limitation.

[Deadmanwalking]

A general maneuver Rote, always resisted by the same skill, that puts any apropriate Aspect you like on someone or something? Yeah, sure.

Moving things from one zone to another is outside the scope of that effect, though. As are skill replacements. Those would change either what the Rote does (moving things from one zone to another is a grapple effect, not a maneuver), or what skill it's resisted by (skill replacement, such as using a spell to pick a lock is definitely resisted by something different from picking people up and throwing them around).

[Mal_Luck]

So Morgan's Earth Stomp does count as a Rote? Because its a split attack it had confused me before...

[Deadmanwalking]

I think so, yeah.

This is somewhat speculative. It's based on what my (good, but fallible) memory tells me the creators of the game said, but they never gave an exhaustive discussion of this, so it's entirely possible I'm misinterpreting some particulars (like whether split attack can be tacked on to a Rote). But I'm much more certain that I'm mostly right.

[Tsunami]

A general maneuver Rote, always resisted by the same skill, that puts any apropriate Aspect you like on someone or something? Yeah, sure.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong in this case. The Rules clearly state that a rote maneuver always places "the exact same Aspect".
The way i see it that leaves little room for interpretation.

One specific aspect per rote.


Split attack is another of the problematic things for rotes. do i define a fixed (maximum)number of targets ? what happens if there are fewer targets available than specified in the rote? Can i then direct all the power at one target, or is some of the power simply lost in limbo...?

I've tried to track down posts where the devs said something about rotes, but couldn't put together a bigger picture.
Thus i repeat my plea for an official ruling... I think i'm not the only one who would really appreciate it.

[Cajun Guy]

You might not be able to make it a split attack, but you could make a rote than is a zonewide attack. I think of somthing like a flash spell.

[exploding_brain]

On a related note, I'd love to know if the rules governing what an enchanted item can do are the same as the rules for rotes, or if not, in what ways are they more or less restrictive.

[Papa Gruff]

Thus i repeat my plea for an official ruling... I think i'm not the only one who would really appreciate it.

You are right buddy

[Mal_Luck]

You are right buddy

Thirded.

[Deadmanwalking]

All theorizing aside, I too would like an official ruling.

[surarrin]

Well.

IMO you can do whatever you want with the shifts you have in a rote.

6 shifts.

2 to power, 4 to duration

2 to power, 1 to zone, 3 to duration

Stuff like that.

As long as the rote always uses the same amount of power in the same fashion ( A flamethrower for example is different from a ball of fire, however multiple streams of fire still counts as a flamethrower) If you reach way outside of the rotes defined capacity it no longer is a rote.

An official ruling would be nice. :3

[Saedar]

I think I remember one of the devs say something about how the parameters of the spell before casting are set (element, type, skill, etc) but after the spell is cast, you can redirect energy as normal for any evocation.

Not sure how that effects things like spreads which, one might think, would decide on targets before the actual casting of the spell.

For some reason I seem to also recall a discussion of this very spell some months back... I wonder if I can find it...

[surarrin]

Yes Saedar, however you have to roll to control the energy after you change it's original purpose which isn't exactly what is being asked here.