Denarian Template

[Walker_Blade]

Now I know that the Denarians are not exactly meant to be PCs, but I know that for high powered concepts at least 1 of my top 3 ideas was a denarian, so I was wondering what the Denarian template would look like.

Musts:
6 refresh spent on Inhuman or Supernatuiral Speed, Strength, Toughness (Catch is always Holy items, or Creature features to represent the demonic form.
Human Guise (-0)
Marked By Power (-1)  I'm not sure about this one, only Nicodemus is listed as having it as a power, but it seems very appropriate.

Options:
Any non-faith based power set the Denarian had access to before taking up the coin.
Hellfire
Channeling or Evocation
Rituals or Thaumaturgy

Minimum refresh: -7

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Deadmanwalking]

I don't think there is one actually, beyond having Holy Stuff as their Catch.

It strikes me that if Harry had really taken up Lasciel's coing, he might've gotten tougher physically (Inhuman Toughness and Recovery), but she mostly would've been likely to grant mystical knowledge in the form of additional Refinements (plus Hellfire, of course). And Thorned Namshiel's physical powers aren't his primary area either.

It seems to me that the Denarians offer their Host whatever the Host seems likely to want...so any power set is a possibility as long as it's what the Denarian's offering. You can also (like a Changeling) power up at any time...at the cost of potentially falling completely under the demon's sway if you hit 0 Refresh. Also like a Changeling, you can set the Coin (and power) aside at any time...but only by giving up all the power.

[Falar]

I think it's less what the Host wants totally and more what the Coin can give of what they have for the Host. Which is why it's important to pick the Coin for the Host from Nicodemus' point of view. Thorned Namshiel and Lasciel are more bent towards what Harry would want ... and not the one dude who turns into a bear.

[Deadmanwalking]

I took that as a question of personality, not ability. Ursiel would've just tried to flat-out possess Harry...a process unlikely to end well for anyone.

Still, it does seem likely that some Denarians lack, say, magical prowess. Or Mythic Strength. But of the boons they can offer, I still thinl that any that would make even a semblance of a PC will be tempting as opposed to attempting to overwhelm.

[Walker_Blade]

As I understand it those people who have let their supernatural talents overwhelm their free will are the definition of a character unplayable due to low refresh.  So, yeah, while they can make decent villains I wasn't considering anyone playing Ursiel, just the cooperative coins.

[drnuncheon]

I took that as a question of personality, not ability. Ursiel would've just tried to flat-out possess Harry...a process unlikely to end well for anyone.

It's fairly likely that the benefits an individual Denarian has to offer fits their personality, so it might well be both.

[Deadmanwalking]

It's fairly likely that the benefits an individual Denarian has to offer fits their personality, so it might well be both.

Oh, absolutely.  That's more or less what the rest of that post is getting at. But as a PC Template I think you should consider what the Host would want more than any generic set. After all, the Denarian is trying to convince said Host to come over to the dark side.

[TheMouse]

I think of Denarians sort of like this:

Each Fallen has a suite of powers. There's probably a lot of overlap in what this would look like in game terms, even if the flavour would be different. Each also has a personality that guides how they go about adding these powers onto their host and at what pace. So, some push for control, while others offer partnership, and this corrupts their hosts at different speeds and in different ways.

Then, each host has predispositions. Some are blanks slates in terms of supernatural power. Others are power houses to begin with. They all vary in inclination and in the degree to which they could resist the will of a being like the Fallen.

Now combine these two. Some variations will have chemistry, while others will not. Willful hosts combined with controlling Fallen will end up with something akin to driving a car with the parking brake on. The better the chemistry between Fallen and host, the more powerful the combined being ends up.

This means it'd probably be difficult to come up with a truly representative generic Denarian template, because they really are a collection of individuals.

[Deadmanwalking]

What The Mouse said. He's making the point I was trying to make, only infinitely beter.

[Bosh]

Isn't demonic copilot pretty much a given here?

[paul_Harkonen]

Depends entirely on how you're using the coin.

If it's just to tap into hell-fire and more magical background knowledge then Demonic co-pilot doesn't make sense at all.  If, on the other hand, you're using it to turn into a giant 6 legged bear... you get the idea.

The Denerians can be the source of a huge number of different powers, treat most of them like sponsored magic with a fairly low debt tolerance, or willingness to keep giving you more powers until you lose your grip on humanity (go below 0 refresh).  It's not going to be a long term character most likely, but it is a valid PC

[Walker_Blade]

I thought about Demonic Co-pilot, but I looked through all of the stats and powers for the Denarians listed in OW  and none of them had it.  Only one of them (Nicodemus) had Marked by Power, but I feel that all of them should have it.

[surarrin]

Well, no. Think of the Fallen as sponsors.

[Victim]

I thought about Demonic Co-pilot, but I looked through all of the stats and powers for the Denarians listed in OW  and none of them had it.  Only one of them (Nicodemus) had Marked by Power, but I feel that all of them should have it.

Actually, it seems fairly appropriate that most of them don't have it.  Harry didn't really recognize the nature of Ursiel and had some trouble figuring out what happened even after soulgazing him.  So I'm not sure that most of them are sufficiently obvious to qualify for Marked.

I think that pretty much every Denarian except Nick comes with physical alterations when running at full power (otoh, maybe he was never running at 100%, since he had a lot of confidence in his noose).  I think it's fair to count him as the exception regardless.  Sure, Lash was only providing Hellfire and knowledge, but that was without actually taking up the coin.  There's probably a limit to how much they can help out with physical stuff inside the limits of a normal human shell.

I'm actually doing this for my character.  Her coin is allowing her to turn into a monstrous scorpion form with Inhuman Strength, Claws, and Supernatural Toughness.  She also has Great Discipline and a bonus social consequence, which should hopefully help put the brakes on losing control.

[neko128]

Well, my understanding is that there's two major ways to use the coins - voluntarily or involuntarily.  If you actively seek cooperation with the coin, you gain a high degree of control and power, but if you try to resist they may be able to seize control anyway - in which case you're just a vessel.

Am I mis-remembering that?