Mimic Power Abuses

[Deadmanwalking]

Oh, absolutely. The main area of brokenness (getting large numbers of Superb skills) is something it was never intended to be used for. Used as intended, the power is cool, but not broken in any major way.

[luminos]

Edit: Hey, I learned to read today!

[Deadmanwalking]

I just reread the description for mimic power, and saw something that mitigates the abusability of it.  You can only mimic skills and mortal stunts with it, not supernatural powers.

That's clearly not the intent, to quote the cost section of the power:

"You must set aside a number of points of
your refresh equal to the maximum total refresh
value of any mortal stunts and supernatural abilities
you wish to copy from a target."

Emphasis mine. But that whole power is a bit of a mess, and in need of some sort of revision.

[luminos]

I have no idea who you are talking to.  You just made that quote up

[drnuncheon]

Hmmm. You're right. That's clearly a rules loophole that can be exploited.

I wouldn't allow it, naturally, but it's not technically illegal. Damn. That's definitely in need of fixing.

There's some controls on this: the character's got to find someone with the abilities he wants, after all.  Nothing says you get to start with everything you want mimiced...

Also, the guy mimicking a bunch of skills at superb is going to be responsible for the death (or otherwise deeply harming) nine extremely talented people - people who probably have friends and allies who would be upset to see them hurt or killed.  Plus there's the police (whatever the local version of SI is) who would be interested in the identity of the serial killer who seems to target the city's most talented people.

...kinda sounds like a Harry Dresden case, doesn't it?

[KOFFEYKID]

Well, nothing says they have to be people, also, murder is a pretty heavy word, a player just has to tag along with the other players, and eat bits off of whatever they kill.

[Deadmanwalking]

There's some controls on this: the character's got to find someone with the abilities he wants, after all.  Nothing says you get to start with everything you want mimiced...

Also, the guy mimicking a bunch of skills at superb is going to be responsible for the death (or otherwise deeply harming) nine extremely talented people - people who probably have friends and allies who would be upset to see them hurt or killed.  Plus there's the police (whatever the local version of SI is) who would be interested in the identity of the serial killer who seems to target the city's most talented people.

...kinda sounds like a Harry Dresden case, doesn't it?

Oh, yeah. But there's not anything saying one way or the other about whether you can start having Mimicked. There needs to be to prevent starting out like this with a 'perfectly reasonable' story about how you did it without getting caught.


I'm also still not convinced that you can Mimic more than one person at a time. Either way the power needs to be clarified somewhat.

[SaintAndSinner]

I'm also still not convinced that you can Mimic more than one person at a time. Either way the power needs to be clarified somewhat.

I also thought you could only mimic one person at a time.

[Moriden]

Like many of the other powers in this system weather it can do one thing or another seems to be up to the st, for weather you can mimic more then one person at a time i think it depends on how exactly your mimic works, if its a you touch your target and take all of there power[ala rogue from x men] then your probably limited to one at a time or your gonna be an npc real quick. If its more of a scalping thing. where you eat your enemies heart and gain there "strongest talent/skill" then id say that it most definitely can work on more then one target at a time. bumping the "weakest" bonuses as appropriate.

The balancing factors i don't think anyone has mentioned yet are mostly ic. For one weather your technically killing anyone or not, your talking big chunks of who and what they are to fuel your power. that's Black Magic regardless of if you get lawbreaker or not, and if you do it to a human i at least would hit you with lawbreaker First [as appropriate] , Second [nearly always], Third [especially if taking skills] and  Fifth [ if you use the power on corpses]. Not to mention the fact that wardens and other things are likly to come gunning for you.

[KOFFEYKID]

The balancing factors i don't think anyone has mentioned yet are mostly ic. For one weather your technically killing anyone or not, your talking big chunks of who and what they are to fuel your power. That's Black Magic regardless of if you get lawbreaker or not, and if you do it to a human i at least would hit you with lawbreaker First [as appropriate] , Second [nearly always], Third [especially if taking skills] and  Fifth [ if you use the power on corpses]. Not to mention the fact that wardens and other things are likly to come gunning for you.

This is utterly ridiculous, as has been argued many times, the cost of such evil is payed for as part of the powers. Like how WCVs dont get a Lawbreaker 3rd for inciting emotion. The only way to ever get a lawbreaker is to break the laws of magic with a spell.

[Moriden]

This is utterly ridiculous, as has been argued many times, the cost of such evil is payed for as part of the powers.

Im Farly certain that was primarily intended for Non-Humans who have those powers, especially since many of those powers were not intended to be had by pcs/ Humans, Its also been said that the powers and rules of this setting are guidelines not set in concrete. if someone is taking mimic power to simulate a magical ability to steal parts of someones soul then yes i think that counts as both Magic and a violation of the law.

[KOFFEYKID]

Then that is your interpretation, which is in no way supported by the guidelines of the game, and is essentially an arbitrary decision you've made. There are lots of cultures where cannibalism isn't an evil thing (they eat the bodies of their dead relatives so that they can keep them with them always), or where cannibalism is seen as a right of the victor (to get their strength).

-edit-

Im done with this aspect of the thread, if other people want to argue the laws of magic please move to another thread for it.

[surarrin]

As far as I'm aware only taking supernatural powers requires you to 1. touch their brain/heart 2. Take a bit out of their magical power.

or atleast, that's how I've read it.

[Moriden]

which is in no way supported by the guidelines of the game, and is essentially an arbitrary decision you've made.

Magic dose not have to be an evocation. Any power could be magic , weather or not it counts as magic is entirely up to the storyteller. if you want to ignore that part of the rules that's up to you , but that doesn't mean its not there. however since you are the one that started this thread i will refrain from posting here again.

[Walker_Blade]

First off I'm pretty sure that the Lawbreaker stunts and the laws of magic only apply to spells, if someone has supernatural strength and sticks a sword in someone they do not get lawbreaker.  Not to mention thwe fact that lawbreaker stunts are gained because you completely believe in the action.  But even assuming that you are right lets look at those laws

if you do it to a human i at least would hit you with lawbreaker First [as appropriate] , Second [nearly always], Third [especially if taking skills] and  Fifth [ if you use the power on corpses]

1st: probably not as you most likely wouldn't kill them via this power, you might kill them before or after this power but I don't think that this power itself does any damage to them.

2nd: You really aren't transforming another person.  That is meant to be warping their body and destroying thier mind, this power does neither.

3rd: The problem I see with this law is that you don't mess with their thoughts, but you do copy their skills, so this is really an ST call.

5th: It is demonstrated in the books that imprints can be read off of a dead body without breaking the laws, so I'd say if you eat a corpse to gain its' power that wouldn't grant a lawbreaker.

All that being said I strongly disagree with giving lawbreaker to anyone who did not cast spells.