Mimic Power Abuses

[KOFFEYKID]

I was looking at Mimic Power, and thinking that it might be a shortcut to building an uber-Sorcerer, the really powerful bit is the ability to just strait up replace your score in a skill with the rank of your victim's skill. It seems like a fine way to get lots and lots of skill points. Here is just a preliminary theoretical build to showcase what I mean. Note that under Mimic Power's Must, it only details needing to set aside mimic points, you dont even have a surcharge like with Modular Abilities, or any other powers.

COST   POWERS
-9         Mimic Abilities

Mimicked Abilities
COST   POWERS
-3         Evocation (Earth, Water, Spirit)
-3         Thaumaturgy
-1         Conviction (5 Ranks)
-1         Discipline (5 Ranks)
-1         Lore (5 Ranks)

Ranks   Skills
5         Endurance, Presence, Lore, Conviction, Discipline
4         Empathy, Rapport
3         Athletics, Alertness
2         Resources, Deciet
1         Intimidation, Scholarship

This guy has 5 Rank 5 Skills, at Refresh -9. He also has an extra Physical, Mental, and Social consequence.

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmm. You're right. That's clearly a rules loophole that can be exploited.

I wouldn't allow it, naturally, but it's not technically illegal. Damn. That's definitely in need of fixing.

[KOFFEYKID]

And it only gets worse the more he kills. With the ranks in the skills he has now, he just has to go wizard hunting to find more and more skilled wizards. Imagine he goes after somebody with +6 Lore, +6 Conviction and +6 Discipline? It ramps up very quickly.

[Deadmanwalking]

And it only gets worse the more he kills. With the ranks in the skills he has now, he just has to go wizard hunting to find more and more skilled wizards. Imagine he goes after somebody with +6 Lore, +6 Conviction and +6 Discipline? It ramps up very quickly.

Not really. Wizards with skills like that are on the Senior Council and he's no match for them even with all his stolen skills. Still, it's bad enough as is.

[Biff Dyskolos]

I was looking at Mimic Power, and thinking that it might be a shortcut to building an uber-Sorcerer

There is nothing in the description of the power that says it trumps the column rule for skills, or the skill cap/skill points for your power level. Thus I assume that any changes you make can't break those restriction.

[KOFFEYKID]

Thats because technically it doesn't go into the skill column. The power says:

Mimic Skill. Allocate one mimic point to copy any one of your target’s skills. This replaces your actual rating with that skill while the allocation remains in place.

You keep your own ranks in the skill, but you use the bonus provided by the stolen skill instead. So it doesn't violate the column system at all. I just put them in there because it was easier to keep track of it there.

[Esoteric]

I'm not actually sure if this is really that broken, because yes, the mimic does get uber skills, but at the same time a normal sorcerer could use those three power points to buy up things such as sponsored magic and/or refinement (though iirc there was a limit on the refinements they could take, but I can't remember what), so in the end I think they end up with at least equivalent casting power.

[KOFFEYKID]

Consider that a mortal stunt will at most give you a flat +1 bonus to a skill, and costs 1 refresh. This gives you up to a +5 if you don't have points in that skill to begin with. That means that this character gets 15 Refresh "worth" of mortal stunts for 3 Refresh. Thats a 1 to 5 ratio, making it about 5 times as powerful as a mortal stunt.

[Esoteric]

Consider that a mortal stunt will at most give you a flat +1 bonus to a skill, and costs 1 refresh. This gives you up to a +5 if you don't have points in that skill to begin with. That means that this character gets 15 Refresh "worth" of mortal stunts for 3 Refresh. Thats a 1 to 5 ratio, making it about 5 times as powerful as a mortal stunt.

From that perspective true, but then again its my opinion that mortal stunts were somewhat weak to begin with anyway (with a few exceptions).

[KOFFEYKID]

From that perspective true, but then again its my opinion that mortal stunts were somewhat weak to begin with anyway (with a few exceptions).

Alright, lets take the example away from a Sorcerer, lets put all of it into skills, You could have a character that has these skills:

COST   POWERS
-9         Mimic Abilities

Mimicked Abilities
COST   POWERS
-1         Endurance (5 Ranks)
-1         Presence (5 Ranks)
-1         Conviction (5 Ranks)
-1         Rapport (5 Ranks)
-1         Empathy (5 Ranks)
-1         Deceit (5 Ranks)
-1         Athletics (5 Ranks)
-1         Alertness (5 Ranks)
-1         Lore (5 Ranks)

Ranks   Skills
5         Intimidation, Contacts
4         Scholarship, Resources
3         Driving, Scholarship
2         Guns, Burglary
1         Fists, Melee

Now this character has 44 percent of all the skills in the entire game at Superb. That is AMAZINGLY powerful. This character will own in almost EVERY situation.

[Deadmanwalking]

I guess from a rules standpoint it's not too different from skill substitution Stunts...but being whole skills makes it much more powrful. Quite likely to the point of being TOO powerful. The other uses aren't bad, but this one's murder as a starting character...

Maybe just a sidebar that says you can't start out with your Mimic points assigned, and thus you have to find people to Mimic during play?

That'd keep this particular problem from happening since you can only mimic one guy at a time, and the GM's never going to have you run into the guy who's Superb at everything.



We really need some sort of official ruling on this.

[KOFFEYKID]

The power doesn't limit it to only mimicing one target at a time, thats Mimic Form. Mimic Powers just says you can mimic powers of your victim, and nothing says you have to spend all of your mimic points on one guy. This character just has to find something skilled at each thing he wants to be skilled in, kill them, and then cannibalize part of them.

I agree that you probably shouldn't start out with by spending all of your mimic points, but it shouldn't be too difficult to start amassing skills.

[Deadmanwalking]

Everything about Mimic Power specifies a single target, so I think you need to have only one. That said, it could be much more clear.


Again, I think we absolutely need an official response here.

[Biff Dyskolos]

Took me a while to look this up but Fred had this to say about Mimic Abilities,

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FateRPG/message/17319

This'll depend on the creature (this is a monster ability after all, not something I'd really want PCs considering), really. Grave Peril should be guidance enough here, given what the Nightmare did to Harry (bit a huge hunk out of one of his chakras -- that's a mental consequence by my book).  I don't know that I'd want to tie the amount of power gained to the size of the consequence; it might be more appropriate to tie the *duration* of the mimicry to that.

The emphasis is mine.

This doesn't really fix anything but perhaps it only seem broken because it was never intended to be used by a PC.

[Archmage_Cowl]

i actually have a character in my game using it and while she is tough my soulfire wizard who has less refresh than her can take her. I dont really think its broken or even that Op but in my opinion it isnt something players should easily get(i made the girl take an aspect pertaining to it, if anyone is curious it's her trouble "you are what you eat" so she feels like the more power she gains from monsters the more she becomes like them) also it can be a great plot point or even plot device.